The problems with typical bodybuilding splits

[Nekrawulf]

g. no more of your 3 word posts. :P

what you mean?

[Nekrawulf]

great post, these are the kind of posts i would like to see more. no more of your 3 word posts. :P

Question though, you said that the conventional type of workout was designed for the steroid using bodybuilder. so is the conventional way somehow better for someone using steroids?

yes. I wont deny that..... But only to a small degree.

Typical splits, when on cycle, are specialized in creating maximum hypertrophy. Thus giving the most bank for the buck. That is, until your body adapts to that regimen on training. AAS helps to prolong this adaptation, but it is inevitable, and the longer you have been training, the faster the adaptation.

This is why vets get smaller gains than newbs.

With a less specialized split as Control suggests, you have more leeway for variation in the workout, and a higher resistance to adaptation.

We all say it... all the time... you HAVE to mix it up...

But in reality we don't, we only shuffle around the same old splits.

[Nekrawulf]

Nekrawulf - I do want to ask this though - you've said that Control is taking a step in the right direction and that your splits/workouts kick homeostatis' butt - however you also said you're not going for the "Bodybuilding" type physique either BUT let's say that you were or you were working with someone who had that goal - what would you recommend to THEM???

Constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements.

Work muscles PRIMARILY as groups, not individuals. And you will have a much more superior response to the training. Of course For hypertrophys sake, you will need to isolate the muscles that you are not properly engaging in the compound training. Mark Rippetoe(author of "Starting Strength" has a similar training protocol to mine, excepts that he incorporated "bodybuilding" movements like those listed earlier in the thread to help isolate certain "lagging" parts


The irony of my situation is this... Since I came off AAS and focused on the performance module, my symmetry has naturally balanced itself out.

[Bouncer]

The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.

great post, these are the kind of posts i would like to see more. no more of your 3 word posts. :P

Question though, you said that the conventional type of workout was designed for the steroid using bodybuilder. so is the conventional way somehow better for someone using steroids?

[Nekrawulf]

My question is , in no way meant to be questionable, how did you two educate yourself on this? It's great to hear these perspectives, but I also would like to know how you came upon these thoughts. I have done a lot of compound movements in the recent time, but it's not for mass building. I have had a feeling of being more symmetrical in the sense that my body works together in it's goals instead of having "dead spots" or lagging parts. Does that make sense?

I read all types of literature and journals on exercise science, physiology, kinesiology, and diet.

The more I read. The more I am overtly convinced that Genetics and endocrinic manipulation play a much larger role than the scientific community give it credit for. It all started with my deep research into anabolics and the hows and whys they worked.

[coffee-guy]

Nekrawulf - I do want to ask this though - you've said that Control is taking a step in the right direction and that your splits/workouts kick homeostatis' butt - however you also said you're not going for the "Bodybuilding" type physique either BUT let's say that you were or you were working with someone who had that goal - what would you recommend to THEM???

[coffee-guy]

This rocks - thanks for adding to the thread Nekrawulf - I'm learning as you guys type/share/discuss!!!!

[Shibby]

My question is , in no way meant to be questionable, how did you two educate yourself on this? It's great to hear these perspectives, but I also would like to know how you came upon these thoughts. I have done a lot of compound movements in the recent time, but it's not for mass building. I have had a feeling of being more symmetrical in the sense that my body works together in it's goals instead of having "dead spots" or lagging parts. Does that make sense?

[Nekrawulf]

So, you are for the most part in agreement with Control?

Let me ask everyone this question, but I'd really like to hear the answer from yourself and Control. Seeing as how doing more isolation movements works some muscle groups secondarily, like how bench works triceps...How does this apply to someone who is constantly lifting heavy objects on a regular basis in their normal day? Isn't that what 'lifting' is supposed to emulate? So isn't your argument studded by the fact that some people do heavy lifting for a job and then workout and still don't over train? I hope that makes sense...

I agree with Control in that he is taking a step in the right direction, but he has yet to take that jump.

For the most part, "typical" splits are NOT an emulation of true life work. When is the last time you did the following exercises in a real life situation:

Curl
Lateral Raise
Bench Press and its variations
Anything to do with a cable crossover.
Anything to do with a Smith Machine.
Anything to do with Machine assisted movements.
Leg Press
Leg extension
Leg Abduction
Leg Adduction
Elliptical Training

And quite simply... and isolation exercise... period.

So while you are at a gym, performing all of these exercises and forming an adaptation to them, they do very little to help you run faster, punch harder, lift objects more efficiently and a myraid of other daily activities.

In response to your point on overtraining.

If they are doing this heavy lifting at their job, every day, homeostasis and physiological adaptation will ensure that they no longer incur the same stress at the job day in and day out.... it is similar to training in that the body exibits generalized adaptation to physical stimulus.

Homeostasis is bodybuilding worst nightmare, and it is what athletes in this culture struggle with day in and day out.

Beating homeostasis is the key.

I am perfomance based in my training as opposed to size based. So my split is adjusted fir this.

To give you an idea of how I break down the mechanics of my split, I divide it intot he following catgories:

push
pull
hips
core
speed
work

I use 3 primary methods to achieve this:

Gymastics(this includes plyometrics and agility based exercises)
Met-Con (any movement of combonation there of that illicits a metabolic response across 2 or more metabolic pathways)
Weightlifting Techniques (more importantly, Olympic Lifts and variations there of)

I mix and match these 3 different components daily, and I rarely have 2 of the "same" workout in a month.

Homeostasis is my bitch and I an evenly developing across all 10 domains of fitness.

[NewbieChris]

The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.

So, you are for the most part in agreement with Control?

Let me ask everyone this question, but I'd really like to hear the answer from yourself and Control. Seeing as how doing more isolation movements works some muscle groups secondarily, like how bench works triceps...How does this apply to someone who is constantly lifting heavy objects on a regular basis in their normal day? Isn't that what 'lifting' is supposed to emulate? So isn't your argument studded by the fact that some people do heavy lifting for a job and then workout and still don't over train? I hope that makes sense...

[Nekrawulf]

The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.

[Bouncer]

PLEASE do bro - why withhold knowledge - I would love to hear your thoughts even if you prefer to start another thread...

exactly. i want to hear what he has to say also.

[coffee-guy]

Dont get me started haha

PLEASE do bro - why withhold knowledge - I would love to hear your thoughts even if you prefer to start another thread...

[Control]

Today was a push day

Dumbell military press
weighted dips
pec-deck
tricep press-down lying on the floor (I guess you could call these cable skull-crushers)

[Chadd77]

Great post control. I'm looking to change things up a little and really considering this approach.