Farenheit 9/11

[JUICE]

i gotta go and see it this week, sounds ok

[MuGGsy]

Moore uses alot of peoples stories (which are very sad not to come across mean to those who have sufferred) to manipulate peoples views on actual facts. That having been said I haven't seen this movie so I won't comment on it, this is just what I've seen in past interviews with him. I'll go watch the film and keep quiet until I get back :p

[spidey]

NBC recently did a "Facts check" on the claims made in the movie. Some of the things like interviews with soldiers and stuff are undeniable but there were also a lot of very questionable things. For instance, he ambushed some congressmen to ask them if they would send their sons to fight in Iraq. When a congressman gave him an answer he didn't like, he didn't include it in the film. Instead he only showed the first part of the contact in an effort to make the congressman look confused and rattled. In fact, the congressman had talked about how proud he was of his nephew who was over there fighting. That was disingenuous and is just the sort of thing Michael Moore is known for. He portrayed soldiers in the film as callous, cruel animals; the classic "baby-killer" image from Vietnam. Nothing could be farther from the truth. He claims in the movie that Bin Laden family members were rushed out of the country before they could be questioned about 9/11 but the FBI directly contradicts that claim. There were several other points made by the NBC fact checking team but I can't remember them.

The "documentary" is extremely slanted and it's purpose is to villify Bush and anyone who supports him OR the Iraq war. This is not just my opinion but words from his own mouth. I will not bother to watch it as I already know what to expect from MM. Why would I go watch a movie that mixes outright lies with little bits of truth and half-truths so completely as to make them nearly indistinguishable from each other. I have better things to do with my time.

Michael Moore is a lying sack of shit that I wouldn't piss on if he was on fire.

[spike1205]

Originally posted by spidey
He claims in the movie that Bin Laden family members were rushed out of the country before they could be questioned about 9/11 but the FBI directly contradicts that claim. There were several other points made by the NBC fact checking team but I can't remember them.

.

i don't know where they got those "facts" from, the bin laden family left on the first flights out of the US, i believe on 9/13, its in the 9-11 report

other than that no one is arguing that the movie doesnt have a slant...

[Racer814]

its a political ad....nothing more..it's dismissive at best....michael's distaste for republicans is well documented...it may have some truth to it but its true intent is to show the Bush administration in a bad light...he wants another liberal in office......

[goliath]

Originally posted by Racer814
its true intent is to show the Bush administration in a bad light...

not to difficult to do that now is it? the truth hurts, bud. especially in regards to a white house that is running this country into the ground.

[Racer814]

Originally posted by goliath
not to difficult to do that now is it? the truth hurts, bud. especially in regards to a white house that is running this country into the ground.

its never too difficult to show anything you want in a bad light bud when you control all the elements of the argument.....there are no truth police in hollywood to check whether everything presented is factual ....could have made a 6 hour mini series of clintons ineptitude.....btw....how many times in the movie does it talk about clinton's administration and their failure to do anything about the bin laden?....dont be naive...the terrorist problem has been simmering through several presidents...

[lxorl]

it was a decent movie... atleast it was though t provoking.... you just have to keep in mind that it has been edited to fit someones agenda, and while most of it is truth, you have to question to what degree.

he showed some good clips of bush making an idiot of himself.

I am a liberal republican.... fyi

[spike1205]

Originally posted by Racer814
its never too difficult to show anything you want in a bad light bud when you control all the elements of the argument.....there are no truth police in hollywood to check whether everything presented is factual ....could have made a 6 hour mini series of clintons ineptitude.....btw....how many times in the movie does it talk about clinton's administration and their failure to do anything about the bin laden?....dont be naive...the terrorist problem has been simmering through several presidents...

why do all bush supporter's automatically use the "clinton defense" whenever someone comment's negatively on Bush. Clinton is/was a lying scumbag, but this has no bearing on BUsh's policy or war mongering.

its shifting the blame, and is poor argument.. at least defend bush with an argument why his actions were well intentioned or something

[jaypee]

The "documentary" is extremely slanted and it's purpose is to villify Bush and anyone who supports him OR the Iraq war.

It's my understanding that documentaries are always slanted and always have been.

[spidey]

Originally posted by spike1205
i don't know where they got those "facts" from, the bin laden family left on the first flights out of the US, i believe on 9/13, its in the 9-11 report

other than that no one is arguing that the movie doesnt have a slant...

I wasn't saying they didn't leave. The FBI simply stated that no one was allowed to leave that they wanted to question. So either they questioned the Bin-Laden family members before they left or they didn't feel they were connected and allowed them to leave. Either way, for MM to claim that they were "rushed out of the country before they could be questioned" is not true and is just one more half-truth that MM is so famous for.

[TheStromba]

Originally posted by lxorl
you just have to keep in mind that it has been edited to fit someones agenda.

This is a key statement. When you have an agenda like Moore does, nothing can be considered a documentary. He started with a conclusion and worked backwards from there.

Pure Propaganda. IF you are anti-Bush, you will understandably eat this stuff up, but that does not make it fact or true.

Hollywood can make anything seem real. This is not the place for reliable information. It is entertainment and should be seen that way.


Here is a statement that Moore had on his website a few months ago:

"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."

If this is not Treason, it is really close.

Even if you HATE Bush, you must temper your judgement about what you see and hear in this movie. Just realize where it is comming from.

[Primal Instinct]

Originally posted by TheStromba
This is a key statement. When you have an agenda like Moore does, nothing can be considered a documentary. He started with a conclusion and worked backwards from there.


Here is a statement that Moore had on his website a few months ago:

"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."

If this is not Treason, it is really close.

I agree with slanting the story somewhat but not that the facts presented are't true. Who REALLY knows if the FBI didn't mess up and miss interviewing some of the bin LAden family? FBI isn't close to perfect. Afterall, they DID fail to investigate further into the field agent's claims that Atta and other Arabs were learning to fly commercial airliners which could be used in a hijacking/terrorist event. It was dismissed by someone in the chain of command there and later on buried the reports to avoid criticism. Only after field agents went to Congress and the media with the story did they admit to messing it up. This is a serious problem.


Whatever statements that Michael Moore stated about the "insurgency" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy" on his website is nothing more than conjecture. It is certainly not treason nor is it close to treason. He did not provide aid nor comfort to the enemy by these statements. He simply just made a claim. Whether it is true or not is irrelevant because that is our right as afforded to us by the Constitution. You could successfully counter-argue that the White House would be quilty of the same thing when they imply that there were meetings between the 9/11 hijackers and Iraqi intelligence officials- which was disproved by the 9/11 Commission- or the fabled uranium yellowcake purchase attempt by Iraq, which was proven false by Cheney's own representative. These things were never true and were conjecture at best, if not outright lies, yet the White House continues to promote this scenario in spite of evidence to the contrary. They have a certain political objective as well. Would you then consider that treason as well?


One thing is true. The resistance to US troop presence HAS grown in Iraq and the violence there has increased. This is to be expected from any indigenous population which is occupied by a foriegn power. Every day that goes by without the Iraqis having jobs or personal security or public services is another day that Fundamental Islamists can recruit these unhappy people. If the US doesn't address the serious security issues looming there in Iraq we will lose the fight there. That means troops from other nations previously against the US invasion. Seal off the porous borders and stop the influx of new "jihadists" into Iraq. That's something that the US has NOT done because of poor planning and lack of personnel to perform the task. It is unfair to the soldiers there that the government isn't giving them the resources that they need. You don't see that in the news but it's there.

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by spike1205
speech and religion? questioning government is what halped this nation become more than just english colonies. Hell jefferson beleived in a revolutoin every couple of generations..to speak out against the leaders of our country if you believe their acts to be wrong, immoral or illegal is teh very nature of our country...its what we are out there fighting for for others right now...

Speaking out against, and questioning our leaders is not only our right, but our moral obligation as a democratic society.

[spike1205]

Originally posted by redsquirrel
Speaking out against, and questioning our leaders is not only our right, but our moral obligation as a democratic society.

amen to that squirrel

stromba, while i agree that "docuimentary" implies objective views, its not as bad as Fox news saying their reports are fair and balanced. The best mad documentaries are those that leave the answers up to the viewer, this obviously is not, that doesnt mean you should ignore the opinon....and it is far from treason Primal said it best " It is certainly not treason nor is it close to treason. He did not provide aid nor comfort to the enemy by these statements" treason is an easy law for every man to find its in the constitution.