Who Discovered America?

[shortz]

It was my understanding that the first civilization in America were the Omecs. Not sure who the actual first people were to actually set foot in the Americas though. They were the first people to actually make up a complex group in Mesoamerica.

[BBAddict]

Originally posted by blm
Claims from the bible as far as I know can't.

Well, the bible and creation are two different things.

Originally posted by blm
I think they should both be taught in schools. However, they need to teach students what scientific theory is before they tackle that. Theories change and so should curriculums. Knowledge is critical in order to make a real conclusion.

We definitely agree here, in fact I couldn't agree more. I think all the information should be taught and kids should be taught how to think with reason and logic and draw their own conclusions instead of having something that is based on faith taught as science. That goes both ways-for creation and evolution.

Originally posted by blm
"Antievolutionists argue that there has been no proof of macroevolutionary processes. However, synthesists claim that the same processes that cause within-species changes of the frequencies of alleles can be extrapolated to between species changes, so this argument fails unless some mechanism for preventing microevolution causing macroevolution is discovered. Since every step of the process has been demonstrated in genetics and the rest of biology, the argument against macroevolution fails."

An argument is only as good as its assumptions and it is a very poor assumption to assume that it is valid that allele frequency changes can be extrapolated to a change in species, and especially, a genus. The evolutionist did not prove that this extrapolation is valid, so nobody needs to prove that it is impossible.

[blm]

The Olmecs existed only 1200 yrs ago and they only existed for like 900yrs.

[blm]

Originally posted by BBAddict
Well, the bible and creation are two different things.

Creationist do not believe in evolution. There are however different types of creationists. On one side of the spectrum , you have some that still believe that the earth is flat because somewhere in the bible it says that and at the other far end you have the ones that believe in the big bang theory and that god took over after that. And of course all the craziness in the middle of that spectrum. Adam and Eve, etc...blah...blah...blah...

An argument is only as good as its assumptions and it is a very poor assumption to assume that it is valid that allele frequency changes can be extrapolated to a change in species, and especially, a genus. The evolutionist did not prove that this extrapolation is valid, so nobody needs to prove that it is impossible.

You seem to have a lot of knowledge in this area. What is your background? How do you know so many details?

[shortz]

Originally posted by blm
The Olmecs existed only 1200 yrs ago and they only existed for like 900yrs.

Huh? You have your information wrong. They flourished from 1200 to 300 BC. They were pre Aztec bro. There is evidence that the Olmec people were on the North American continent more than 10,000 years ago.

[blm]

Originally posted by shortz
Huh? You have your information wrong. They flourished from 1200 to 300 BC.

How does biblical time work, lol? Wouldn't that be 1200 yrs + 2005yrs? I got the right info. It appears that I interpreted it wrong.

*edit* it was late

[blm]

I found some info that suggests they were here almost 40 - 60, 000 yrs ago. So how the hell does that BC/AD/present timeline work?

This topic has been my conversation of choice lately. I learn something interesting more and more. It's fascinating.

[Puddles]

BLM, have you been to St. Augustine and the Fountain of Youth? I think you'd enjoy it. Took my daughter there for a field trip a few years ago.

http://st-augustine.rezcenter.com/fo...of_youth.shtml

[blm]

Originally posted by Puddles
BLM, have you been to St. Augustine and the Fountain of Youth? I think you'd enjoy it. Took my daughter there for a field trip a few years ago.

I actually was thinking about heading that way during my spring break.

[Primal Instinct]

Why would man be any different than other animals? Anyone here ever heard of the Columbian Elephant? It crossed the Siberian land bridge after migrating from Asia. Prior to Asia, elephants originated somewhere around North Africa but had migrated for food reasons. As they headed north, the elephants ears became smaller because they didn't need as much surface area to reject the heat of the African plains. The further north and east they migrated, the smaller their ears became and they started to grow heavy hair on their bodies to help insulate against the colder climates found in northern Europe and what is now China and Russia.


Eventually, the elephants crossed the land bridge along with many other animals in that era and more adaptations took place in order for the elephants to survive in their new grazing ranges. At some point, these elephants (wooly mammoths, Columbian Elephants) were hunted to extinction by humans who also probably followed the traveling herds of deer, elephants, bison and so forth.

Why would it be so unlikely that humans hadn't travelled along with animal herds that they depended upon for food? The Europeans discovered North America but were thousands of years behind the arrival of the natives they found when their ships first landed upon our coastlines.


Humans too, evolved to match their environment's requirements. During the last ice age, the european man became shorter in stature, probably to retain body temperatures in the cold european climate. To this very day, the average european man stands approximately 5'9". Likewise, African natives needed to reject heat (requiring larger surface area, like the Elephants and their ears) and to this day, are much taller averaging around 6'1" or so. Just nature adapting to it's environment...

I find Columbus Day a ludicrous holiday for the reason that it was basically a celebration of the european immigrants jerking each other off trying to take credit for what really amounts to a "non-discovery" IMO. It's like running a marathon and claiming that you've won when there are already people standing there at the finish line, lol. You might be the first person from your neighborhood to win but not the first person to get to the finish line.

[Primal Instinct]

Originally posted by blm
How does biblical time work, lol? Wouldn't that be 1200 yrs ago? I got the right info. It appears that I interpreted it wrong.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that in those days the arabs ran on a Roman calendar year. A year to them was not 365 days. That is why in some books of the Old Testament that the authors claimed that certain biblical figures lived for 140 years or so. Kind of like the US standard of British Unit measurement versus the metric measurement system.


Something kind of neat; after the earth was formed from a collision (not a direct head on impact but a glancing blow) with a lunar body called Orpheus 4.6 billion years ago, it was spinning quickly after the impact. As the earth continues cooling, it is slowing down its rotational rate. Millions of years from now a daylight cycle will take substantially longer than it does today. It is estimated that for quite some time starting immediately after the impact, that one daylight cycle lasted approximately 4 hours. How's that for a time rate change? LOL

[Puddles]

Originally posted by Primal Instinct
To this very day, the average european man stands approximately 5'9". Likewise, African natives needed to reject heat (requiring larger surface area, like the Elephants and their ears) and to this day, are much taller averaging around 6'1" or so. Just nature adapting to it's environment...

Something I learned on my field trip to St. Augustine was that when the Europeans discovered "The Fountain of Youth" one thing they noticed was that the Native American Indians were quite larger than they were and they thought it had something to do with the water they drank. Later it was discovered, for practical purposes (larger people were stronger, etc.), over many decades, the larger men and women were matched up together to produce larger offspring and encouraged them to have more children and the smaller people to have less. As time went on simple genetics took over and the population of these people were all big men and women.

[BBAddict]

Originally posted by blm
You seem to have a lot of knowledge in this area. What is your background? How do you know so many details?

I am a scientist by training and have studied biology and biomechanics quite a bit. As part of that and out of interest in understanding where everything came from, I've read many books on both sides of the argument. If you're interested in reading some good books on the topic, I'd be happy to recommend a couple that I really enjoyed.

[Mr I]

Originally posted by Turbo3000
I like the Bering Straight theory. I just know it wasn't Vespuci, Columbus or any of those guys, they found land that was already inhibited.

Yep and then, drugged, stole and ultimately begun to commit genocide on the rightful natives

[blm]

Primal...you bastard you always word things so well. That is basically the point I was getting at, lol.