CERN Experiment

[The_Grinder]

You could potentially get hit by bus while sitting on your couch...

Funny you said that. Not the same thing at all. Assuming you get hit by a bus while sitting on a couch, something went wrong. Incredibly wrong. Not the case with the CERN collider.

The truth is, no one knows what will happen with this type of power. Some VERY smart people theorize that power of this magnitute would create a black hole or a stranglet. (Neither are good news.) This wouldnt be a case where something went wrong. Its a case where either it WILL happen or it WON'T happen.

I'm sure the chances of it happening are very slim. But it definately seems like they are rushing into something that could "in theory" have disastorous consequences. The world's scientists are definately not at a consensus on this subject, which is scary.

[Shibby]

I'm just saying you can create theories of what could potentially go wrong on any scale. But having bus transportation is not going to stop me from trying to live in my home.

[The_Grinder]

I'm just saying you can create theories of what could potentially go wrong on any scale. But having bus transportation is not going to stop me from trying to live in my home.

Once again, you are assuming something has to go "wrong" for a black hole or strangelet to be created. The CERN scientists are saying that any black hole that were created would disappear due to Hawking's radiation.

Two things I don't like about that. First of all, they are admitting that the creation of black holes is very much possible. (I don't think possible is the right word here. It's either definately going to happen, or definately not going to happen.) But anyway we will leave it at possible.

Second of all, Hawking radiation has never been proven to even exist!!! It is still theory, and scientists are basing their assurances that the machine is harmless on an unproven theory.

[blm]

The truth is, no one knows what will happen with this type of power. Some VERY smart people theorize that power of this magnitute would create a black hole or a stranglet. (Neither are good news.) This wouldnt be a case where something went wrong. Its a case where either it WILL happen or it WON'T happen.

I'm sure the chances of it happening are very slim. But it definately seems like they are rushing into something that could "in theory" have disastorous consequences. The world's scientists are definately not at a consensus on this subject, which is scary.

Don't even worry about the religion post I was only being slightly serious, but you get so worked up.

Everything you say is certainly a possibility according to 'laws' of physics. Nothing is aboslute in terms of the end result, but I support it either way. The worlds top physicists support it as well.

[Shibby]

Once again, you are assuming something has to go "wrong" for a black hole or strangelet to be created. The CERN scientists are saying that any black hole that were created would disappear due to Hawking's radiation.


Two things I don't like about that. First of all, they are admitting that the creation of black holes is very much possible. (I don't think possible is the right word here. It's either definately going to happen, or definately not going to happen.) But anyway we will leave it at possible.

I see what you mean now. You are talking about byproducts. We wouldn't have cars or the energy we do if we stopped at theories. Cars burn gas creating a byproduct (exhaust) that wasn't fully understood at it's creation. A byproduct of that is contributing to global warming.

Pretty much everything we have in life has an unforeseen byproduct, but if we stop trying to advance life, we will die by just trying to survive.

[The_Grinder]

A lot of people support this. I'm wondering if that's because the concept of the earth being consumed by a black hole seems so distant.

I'm wondering. If 10 years down the road, the earthquakes start and you know you only have a few minutes left to live... a few minutes left of our planet's existance. Would you honestly look back and say "it was worth it"???

I only wish they would do a little more to ensure safety. By that, I mean taking measures to prove without a shadow of an empirical doubt that the project didn't endanger our way of life. Basing their safety assurances on unproven theories isn't really very comforting. If they are willing to die for their discoveries, thats one thing. But they don't have the right to make that decision for everyone.

[Shibby]

A lot of people support this. I'm wondering if that's because the concept of the earth being consumed by a black hole seems so distant.

I'm wondering. If 10 years down the road, the earthquakes start and you know you only have a few minutes left to live... a few minutes left of our planet's existance. Would you honestly look back and say "it was worth it"???

I only wish they would do a little more to ensure safety. By that, I mean taking measures to prove without a shadow of an empirical doubt that the project didn't endanger our way of life. Basing their safety assurances on unproven theories isn't really very comforting. If they are willing to die for their discoveries, thats one thing. But they don't have the right to make that decision for everyone.

Would you rather live in the 19th century? This project has been in development for 10 years. You make it sound like the whole thing is fringe science. How much more time does there need to be before you just have to move forward? I'm not saying your fears a wrong, just a little irrational. It's even slightly hypocritical to be sitting here on the INTERNET and complain about people wanting to advance life.

[Shibby]

I think so much of the fear you have is because you are primarily listening to the people that have spent the last 2 years analyzing the experiment and making you scared of it. I have been listening to the people that have spent the last 10 years making it.

Something I have noticed about those people who are fighting it base their argument on an assumption that the smaller pieces of the whole haven't been tested. They are always saying "well what happens if this piece did this instead of what it is suppose to do?", as if one day they just came up with a theory, the parts and the decision to spend 10 Billion dollars on a whim without trying anything on a smaller scale.

[Bouncer]

i see both sides here. grinder and shibby both have valid points. one thing is for sure though, grinder is a bible thumper.

[coffee-guy]

So where do physicists see themselves taking things once they find new dimensions/prove string theory? I have done my best to keep up with what they hope to prove but nothing about what they hope to *do* with the knowledge they gain from it? Are they going to attempt to create a new universe/galaxy/planetary system or what? I realize that's pretty far fetched but I guess what I'm asking is what do they gain from it in regards to progress for society. I'm positive it's worth it but just don't know why :P??

[Bouncer]

So where do physicists see themselves taking things once they find new dimensions/prove string theory? I have done my best to keep up with what they hope to prove but nothing about what they hope to *do* with the knowledge they gain from it? Are they going to attempt to create a new universe/galaxy/planetary system or what? I realize that's pretty far fetched but I guess what I'm asking is what do they gain from it in regards to progress for society. I'm positive it's worth it but just don't know why :P??

dosent necessarily have to lead to something. its about the knowledge and understanding of what makes us.. us.

[coffee-guy]

dosent necessarily have to lead to something. its about the knowledge and understanding of what makes us.. us.

I agree to a point but better understanding ourselves and what "makes us us" should lead us towards progress. I know that every time I realize something about myself I do my best to either correct it or build upon it - I would think that's how the top scientists in the world would be looking at it. Just wondering if they're talking about what it might lead to in terms of progress - specifics though - none of this *knowledge* stuff they keep saying generically on the news/in the papers :mad:....

[mindstar]

I'm sure that the unexpected knowledge outcomes will more than justify this experiment. Much of scientific knowledge and technological breakthroughs are also 'by-products' of experiments intended in other directions.

And seriously, if the world blows up, is it any great loss? Assuming it goes relatively painlessly, what is the outcome? We're all dead. No one left to suffer, no survivors mourning the loss. We all die at once. I'm not sure that bothers me that much. My only regret is that there will not be any time to watch the immensity of the void dawn on the faces of the believers...lol.

[Shibby]

I agree to a point but better understanding ourselves and what "makes us us" should lead us towards progress. I know that every time I realize something about myself I do my best to either correct it or build upon it - I would think that's how the top scientists in the world would be looking at it. Just wondering if they're talking about what it might lead to in terms of progress - specifics though - none of this *knowledge* stuff they keep saying generically on the news/in the papers :mad:....

Like mindstar said, they need to see what they can learn before they can learn how to apply it.

[The_Grinder]

Would you rather live in the 19th century? This project has been in development for 10 years. You make it sound like the whole thing is fringe science. How much more time does there need to be before you just have to move forward? I'm not saying your fears a wrong, just a little irrational. It's even slightly hypocritical to be sitting here on the INTERNET and complain about people wanting to advance life.

The internet is a little different. There wasn't evidence suggesting that the world might come to an end while developing the internet. The internet, automobiles, elecricity, etc. were all things to help the human race have an easier and better life. Its not like someone started doing a random experiment, and the car was a byproduct. Someone invisioned the automobile, and set out to create just that!

Tell me what they are trying to do with this experiment? How is it advancing life? How will my life be made easier in 10 years if they find another dimension or some super-atom? The point is, they are taking a shot in the dark with no clear objective. They just want to see what happens. Finding an economical alternative to fossil fuel would be advancing life, not ramming atoms into eachother to see microscopic fireworks....

And as far as the scientists researching something for 10 years... I don't really consider 10 years a long time in this context.