My new favorite song - hillbiller style

[Shibby]

you are a religious racist. this is where me and you differ.

me and you have the same general beliefs but you look down on religion, whereas I see the cultural side of it.

what you said above is no different then saying, "that restaurant was really good but if there were no blacks allowed it would have been great."

Umm wrong. And the word is anti-theist. :thumup: Black does not define who a person is other than race. You are right in that I won't go to a church picnic, but how does that differ from you not going to a gym because it's to "health club" like and telling people they don't go to a real gym?

Not sure what you mean about "cultural side".

[Shibby]

haha, irony.

I was agreeing with her, not to be confused that I am :D

[Bouncer]

Umm wrong. And the word is anti-theist. :thumup: Black does not define who a person is other than race. You are right in that I won't go to a church picnic, but how does that differ from you not going to a gym because it's to "health club" like and telling people they don't go to a real gym?

Not sure what you mean about "cultural side".

how can you not understand the cultural side of religion? the massive ancient temples in Egypt, china, etc.. etc.. the festivals where people have danced and lit fireworks for thousands of years, the foods.. etc..

when you hate something and look down on something as you do with religion your argument becomes weak. you simply cant bring your self to see any beauty in it because you like to think its beneath you.

[Bouncer]

how does that differ from you not going to a gym because it's to "health club" like and telling people they don't go to a real gym?

agreed, and most people would say some of my views on the south, music, etc.. is ignorant. i can admit that. the question is, can you?

[Shibby]

how can you not understand the cultural side of religion? the massive ancient temples in Egypt, china, etc.. etc.. the festivals where people have danced and lit fireworks for thousands of years, the foods.. etc..

when you hate something and look down on something as you do with religion your argument becomes weak. you simply cant bring your self to see any beauty in it because you like to think its beneath you.

I'm not sure where you get these ideas. I didn't say I don't understand the cultural side of things, I just didn't understand what you were referencing. To me it sounds like I just have a better understanding of what the events mean than you and many of the participants. Since I don't allow myself to ignore certain key aspects and just blindly enjoy things seems to upset you. I'm not going to apologize for seeing the whole picture. It can be difficult for me to separate the beauty from the ignorance at times on certain subjects. I can however stand in awe of the Aztec temples and the Egyptian pyramids. I can go to a museum and be fascinated by the things people were capable of building with primitive tools. I think it's quite clear that you are creating a strawman argument to prove something that you have an unclear understanding of.

[Shibby]

agreed, and most people would say some of my views on the south, music, etc.. is ignorant. i can admit that. the question is, can you?

Just to touch on this as it is grouped with the above. The fact is a have a very good understanding of the cultural side of it. That's the opposite of being ignorant on the subject.

[Bouncer]

I'm not sure where you get these ideas. I didn't say I don't understand the cultural side of things, I just didn't understand what you were referencing. To me it sounds like I just have a better understanding of what the events mean than you and many of the participants. Since I don't allow myself to ignore certain key aspects and just blindly enjoy things seems to upset you. I'm not going to apologize for seeing the whole picture. It can be difficult for me to separate the beauty from the ignorance at times on certain subjects. I can however stand in awe of the Aztec temples and the Egyptian pyramids. I can go to a museum and be fascinated by the things people were capable of building with primitive tools. I think it's quite clear that you are creating a strawman argument to prove something that you have an unclear understanding of.

its funny how you can do the exact thing you accuse me of and not see it.

me and you see things very differently, we always have, even when we agree.

[Shibby]

its funny how you can do the exact thing you accuse me of and not see it.

Care to elaborate?

[Bouncer]

Care to elaborate?

you like to preach that you see the whole picture and have the FULL understanding of it all and yet you look at it with a hateful eye.

you say, "i dont allow myself to only see the good things while ignoring other things." i would argue that you only allow yourself to see the negatives.


again this is a weird argument because neither of us really believe in religion or any of that. i just take issue with the way you come across as being far above religion and looking down on those who do.

[Shibby]

you like to preach that you see the whole picture and have the FULL understanding of it all and yet you look at it with a hateful eye.

you say, "i dont allow myself to only see the good things while ignoring other things." i would argue that you only allow yourself to see the negatives.


again this is a weird argument because neither of us really believe in religion or any of that. i just take issue with the way you come across as being far above religion and looking down on those who do.

Full, no; extensive yes, but that's just semantics mostly so we can leave that alone.


I admitted that it is hard for me to ignore the negatives and on certain subjects, mainly those that affect my life currently, the negatives are much more potent. Does it make sense to say that I don't look down on theists but I pity them? While at the same time feel obligated to put up a fight to keep them from bringing their faith out of the private life? I heard on the news today that a woman was asked to read a story at her son's day care. She chose the bible. The school didn't allow it. The woman is talking about taking it to the supreme court to "defend her son's right to freedom of religious expression". During these times, how do you think most parents would feel if the was a reading from the Qur'an in their kids school? So many celebrations are widely tolerated simply because they always have been. The only problem with this is that freedom of religion includes freedom FROM religion. So while it is quite obvious that I don't sit quietly about religion, it is not out of hatred. I want to be able to be who I am without repercussions. I am very outspoken against religion and I realize it comes across that I hate everything with a touch of it. My intention is not to portray that message, but to show how much religion is embedded in everything. I find it complimentary that people feel I make everything a debate about religion. That to me says people are noticing how much religion is taken for granted as being a part of everyone's lives.

This is a weird discussion since we are essentially on the same side of the fence. I just want my position to be understood clearly, but at the same time enjoy the journey to better understand each other.

[Shibby]

So how about that song... :P

[Bouncer]

Full, no; extensive yes, but that's just semantics mostly so we can leave that alone.


I admitted that it is hard for me to ignore the negatives and on certain subjects, mainly those that affect my life currently, the negatives are much more potent. Does it make sense to say that I don't look down on theists but I pity them? While at the same time feel obligated to put up a fight to keep them from bringing their faith out of the private life? I heard on the news today that a woman was asked to read a story at her son's day care. She chose the bible. The school didn't allow it. The woman is talking about taking it to the supreme court to "defend her son's right to freedom of religious expression". During these times, how do you think most parents would feel if the was a reading from the Qur'an in their kids school? So many celebrations are widely tolerated simply because they always have been. The only problem with this is that freedom of religion includes freedom FROM religion. So while it is quite obvious that I don't sit quietly about religion, it is not out of hatred. I want to be able to be who I am without repercussions. I am very outspoken against religion and I realize it comes across that I hate everything with a touch of it. My intention is not to portray that message, but to show how much religion is embedded in everything. I find it complimentary that people feel I make everything a debate about religion. That to me says people are noticing how much religion is taken for granted as being a part of everyone's lives.

This is a weird discussion since we are essentially on the same side of the fence. I just want my position to be understood clearly, but at the same time enjoy the journey to better understand each other.

i agree on your points.

i guess i just dont understand why you cant see it like me. i am fascinated by science, and the universe and all the unanswered questions. but at the same time i can look at things like the ancient temples and respect and see the beauty in them. i dont get the idea of being turned of by a song because it has something about god in it or whatever. then again i guess its kind of like me being turned off by a song that talks about the south etc.. :disagree: :retard:

[Shibby]

i agree on your points.

i guess i just dont understand why you cant see it like me. i am fascinated by science, and the universe and all the unanswered questions. but at the same time i can look at things like the ancient temples and respect and see the beauty in them. i dont get the idea of being turned of by a song because it has something about god in it or whatever. then again i guess its kind of like me being turned off by a song that talks about the south etc.. :disagree: :retard:

Have you explored why you don't feel you need religion or have you just accepted that it's not for you, that you don't know why and don't care to know why? Understand what ever position it is, there isn't a wrong one.

[Bouncer]

Have you explored why you don't feel you need religion or have you just accepted that it's not for you, that you don't know why and don't care to know why? Understand what ever position it is, there isn't a wrong one.

i think its just because science makes so much more sense to me. when religious people talk on tv it just sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me. may also have something to do with not being raised religious, never been to a church besides a wedding and a funeral.

i pretty much do what feels right to me. religion feels fake to me. but then again, if you want to pray 5 times a day, more power to ya. thats the part where you come in, i feel like you would walk up to some dude down on his knees praying and spit on him. lol

[Shibby]

i think its just because science makes so much more sense to me. when religious people talk on tv it just sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me. may also have something to do with not being raised religious, never been to a church besides a wedding and a funeral.

For me, I was raised Lutheran and never really cared for it. So when I became old enough to decide for myself I quickly abandoned it and didn't look back. It wasn't until I had my first son did I really start taking a look at the "why". As I started getting further into it, I became more fascinated with how people CAN have religion. How so many people could look at things from such a logical perspective and then appear to abandon all reason at the drop of hat. Part of it now is about raising consciousness and helping to make it more acceptable to discuss religion without it being taboo. Also make it easier to live as a non-believer and not have to be viewed as the lunatic. :D

i pretty much do what feels right to me. religion feels fake to me. but then again, if you want to pray 5 times a day, more power to ya. thats the part where you come in, i feel like you would walk up to some dude down on his knees praying and spit on him. lol

Ha, that would be anti-theism. While I am human and can slide on that slippery slope I try not to loose my focus. I don't want to be viewed as an anti-theist, just pro-atheism. While I respect his right to pray in a public place, I also respect my right to laugh at him and ask who he's talking to :D