Doctor's visit

[Scrumhalf]

After talkin to him more, he said still you shouldn't do it because it isn't "natural"

Are you fucking kidding me? Thats his response, it isn't "natural"?

He is a smart guy, but when it comes to even to supplement usage he doesn't agree with it.

My question is, how many primary care physicians are tools like this dude?

You know deep down that he is perfectly right. You are just in denial about it. Don't call him a tool when he is giving you perfectly good advice.

The human endocrine system is a finely tuned system that has evolved over tens of thousands of years. By introducing enzymes and hormones into your body, you are seriously upsetting that balance. Look at at the amount of things you have to do to compensate for taking even something like testosterone to minimize the side effects.

And I think it is fair to say that there is no clear consensus on what constitutes reasonable use versus abuse. See for example the article Mr. Incredible posted recently on steroids and right ventricular function. I have no intentions of using AAS but if I did, findings like that would give me serious pause.

Suppose we find that AAS use decreases your life expectancy by 5 years. Would it be worth it to you to use it? Maybe if you were a major league ballplayer making $10M a year, and AAS could extend your career by another 2 or 3 years, I can understanding you considering it simply for the financial security that it would provide your family. Maybe it is heresy to say this on a board like this, but my personal opinion is that recreational AAS use by the average Joe is absolutely nuts.

Whether one uses AAS or not is their personal business and I am not an advocate one way or another, but IMHO, your doctor is giving you perfectly rational advice that frankly I would have given as well if I were in his shoes.

[Bouncer]

You know deep down that he is perfectly right. You are just in denial about it. Don't call him a tool when he is giving you perfectly good advice.

The human endocrine system is a finely tuned system that has evolved over tens of thousands of years. By introducing enzymes and hormones into your body, you are seriously upsetting that balance. Look at at the amount of things you have to do to compensate for taking even something like testosterone to minimize the side effects.

And I think it is fair to say that there is no clear consensus on what constitutes reasonable use versus abuse. See for example the article Mr. Incredible posted recently on steroids and right ventricular function. I have no intentions of using AAS but if I did, findings like that would give me serious pause.

Suppose we find that AAS use decreases your life expectancy by 5 years. Would it be worth it to you to use it? Maybe if you were a major league ballplayer making $10M a year, and AAS could extend your career by another 2 or 3 years, I can understanding you considering it simply for the financial security that it would provide your family. Maybe it is heresy to say this on a board like this, but my personal opinion is that recreational AAS use by the average Joe is absolutely nuts.

Whether one uses AAS or not is their personal business and I am not an advocate one way or another, but IMHO, your doctor is giving you perfectly rational advice that frankly I would have given as well if I were in his shoes.

thats all fine and dandy if only doc's werent quick draw mcgraw to write a script for depression meds when a person comes in saying "im sad i just broke up with my boyfriend". go in with back pain and instead of asking about posture etc.. they throw pain killers and muscle relaxers at you.

so i cant really go along with your "doc knows best" attitude about steroids when they are pill pushers for every single disorder that could be easily fixed with simple lifestyle changes.

[Scrumhalf]

I'm not saying that "doc knows best." I'm just pointing out that the response dna got from his doctor was measured and prudent. What do you expect him to say - go ahead son, I agree that aas use is ok?

The bottom line is:

1. Minute quantities of hormones can cause significant changes in bodily function. Inserting hormones will upset the equilibrium of the human endocrine system.

2. What constitutes "safe use" is not clearly established with the kind of large scale medical data that has been collected for other mainstream drugs.


I agree that in general, the medical establishment tends to over-medicate people. But that is a red herring, in my opinion. To say that just because doctors overprescribe other medicines, they ought to also not have any issues with AAS is illogical.

[Bouncer]

20% no thats too high. Its around 15-16, I have a POS scale that tells me. I don't follow it because its crazy.

One minute its saying 29 than 20, but it always averages around 15. So i sort of go off that. Let me get a reference picture posted

your not 15% if you were much more vascular at 14%. that guy in the picture is around 20%.

[Bouncer]

I'm not saying that "doc knows best." I'm just pointing out that the response dna got from his doctor was measured and prudent. What do you expect him to say - go ahead son, I agree that aas use is ok?

The bottom line is:

1. Minute quantities of hormones can cause significant changes in bodily function. Inserting hormones will upset the equilibrium of the human endocrine system.

2. What constitutes "safe use" is not clearly established with the kind of large scale medical data that has been collected for other mainstream drugs.


I agree that in general, the medical establishment tends to over-medicate people. But that is a red herring, in my opinion. To say that just because doctors overprescribe other medicines, they ought to also not have any issues with AAS is illogical.

to say its "not natural" and then turn around and give the next patient depression meds because he is sad is also illogical. im not saying he should have said, "go ahead do steroids". but he could have said, "if you are bound and determined to use steroids i want to monitor your health closely." this is much more useful that the "not natural" none sense. everything he prescribes is "not natural".

[ROCKETW19]

There have to be good doctors you can talk to about this kind of stuff. There are side effects and its always good to have a first hand second opinion. You can't tell me that you think that is bad, can you? I understand what you are saying, but has no one here (sans Rado) had a good doctor that will talk to them about AAS?

Yes you would be right if you had the "right doc" I would want one that knows about AAS and will do all the tests but never document anything about steriod use. I am sure they are out there but probably not that many.
I know a doc right now that will give you anything you want, test,gh,nolva,hcg, ECT but you have to pay out the ass for it and he writes everything down.
I wouldnt want to have somethng wrong with my heart and the insurance company finds out i have been on test and Gh for 10 years. I dont think they would pay for any heart surgery?

[dna9488]

your not 15% if you were much more vascular at 14%. that guy in the picture is around 20%.

oh hm... well I googled 15% body fat and that came out.

Its no biggie. i can bring it down

[Bouncer]

Its no biggie.

your fat

[dna9488]

You know deep down that he is perfectly right. You are just in denial about it. Don't call him a tool when he is giving you perfectly good advice.

The human endocrine system is a finely tuned system that has evolved over tens of thousands of years. By introducing enzymes and hormones into your body, you are seriously upsetting that balance. Look at at the amount of things you have to do to compensate for taking even something like testosterone to minimize the side effects.

And I think it is fair to say that there is no clear consensus on what constitutes reasonable use versus abuse. See for example the article Mr. Incredible posted recently on steroids and right ventricular function. I have no intentions of using AAS but if I did, findings like that would give me serious pause.

Suppose we find that AAS use decreases your life expectancy by 5 years. Would it be worth it to you to use it? Maybe if you were a major league ballplayer making $10M a year, and AAS could extend your career by another 2 or 3 years, I can understanding you considering it simply for the financial security that it would provide your family. Maybe it is heresy to say this on a board like this, but my personal opinion is that recreational AAS use by the average Joe is absolutely nuts.

Whether one uses AAS or not is their personal business and I am not an advocate one way or another, but IMHO, your doctor is giving you perfectly rational advice that frankly I would have given as well if I were in his shoes.

I'm not saying that "doc knows best." I'm just pointing out that the response dna got from his doctor was measured and prudent. What do you expect him to say - go ahead son, I agree that aas use is ok?

The bottom line is:

1. Minute quantities of hormones can cause significant changes in bodily function. Inserting hormones will upset the equilibrium of the human endocrine system.

2. What constitutes "safe use" is not clearly established with the kind of large scale medical data that has been collected for other mainstream drugs.


I agree that in general, the medical establishment tends to over-medicate people. But that is a red herring, in my opinion. To say that just because doctors overprescribe other medicines, they ought to also not have any issues with AAS is illogical.

You have valid points, and I respect that. However, looking at a few steroid forums you can see that people use AAS properly don't don't get acute diseases. AAS may lead to a chronic illness, but there is no evidence to show that. Steroids in young high school children does show immediate signs and leads to severe damage to the body.

My doctor said with AAS, you will get hypertension and high cholesterol. He never said it will KILL you or bring on a terminal illness.

I just overreacted because he just said it straight out if i am on steroids. In the past few years he never said this, i was shocked to hear this now.

[dna9488]

your fat

so? whats your point?

I exercise and diet on a regular basis. Its just a matter of time. Rome wasn't built in one day.

[dna9488]

Come on you are a chemistry guy, you know that testosterone shit isn't natural.

I am glad that tons of Americans are all hopped up on natural shit like Lexapro, Paxil, Prozac, Hydrocodone, Soma, Oxycontin, Ambien. It is good that these doctors are telling you the evils of suck a dangerous thing as steroids.

Testosterone is a hormone. Hormone's are fast chemical reactions that don't require a catalyst.

Steroids are "synthetic" testosterone.

Bro why am i getting a feeling that you're bashing them. Haven't you used them in the past (if not continuing to use them)?

[Bouncer]

so? whats your point?

I exercise and diet on a regular basis. Its just a matter of time. Rome wasn't built in one day.

you been at the same weight for a year, and you always say things like the rome bs above to make yourself feel better. what was your diet today? post it. a bulker is to grow, if you stop growing its time to cut etc.. you seem to be in a comfort zone IMO and your not taking the steps necessary to get the body you want.

[Bouncer]

Testosterone is a hormone. Hormone's are fast chemical reactions that don't require a catalyst.

Steroids are "synthetic" testosterone.

Bro why am i getting a feeling that you're bashing them. Haven't you used them in the past (if not continuing to use them)?

he was bashing doctors, you missed his sarcasm.

[dna9488]

you been at the same weight for a year, and you always say things like the rome bs above to make yourself feel better. what was your diet today? post it. a bulker is to grow, if you stop growing its time to cut etc.. you seem to be in a comfort zone IMO and your not taking the steps necessary to get the body you want.

Diet wasn't so great today, haha.... We had a party at work to celebrate the last day of the interns. After work I have been running back and forth to my college getting financial aid shit figured out, meeting with advisers, and signing paperwork.

Ask me about my diet the whole week and it was DEAD on. Just today was messed up

he was bashing doctors, you missed his sarcasm.

AHHH.... i sure did, thanks

[Shibby]

oh hm... well I googled 15% body fat and that came out.

Its no biggie. i can bring it down

:)