What happens to water if it’s not allowed to expand when frozen?

[Bouncer]

What happens to water if it’s not allowed to expand when frozen? – The Blogs at HowStuffWorks

[NewbieChris]

You didn't know that?

[Bouncer]

You didn't know that?

Did I say that?


The question is, would the same thing happen if the water would have been frozen by a different means instead of liquid nitrogen which I would think would make the pipe weak and brittle.

I also want to know if they had used stronger materials like really thick steel or something like titanium etc.. would the same thing happen?

Is there a limit to the amount of pressure that freezing water can expand and force or will it break everything in its way?

[dna9488]

Water is a very unique compound. Does wondrous things. Did you know water is polar as well. Water also binds to itself.

Anyway, if you didn't know that water expands when frozen, you're :retard:

[NewbieChris]

Just saying, the pipes burst at our shore house all the time when there is water in them still...it why you have to be very diligent at keeping at them.

P.S. That is the only reason I know it happens either ways...

[Bouncer]

Anyway, if you didn't know that water expands when frozen, you're :retard:

pretty sure that everyone knows this. are you guys really so stupid that you cant understand the point of the thread?

its about not being able to expand.

[Bouncer]

Just saying, the pipes burst at our shore house all the time when there is water in them still...it why you have to be very diligent at keeping at them.

P.S. That is the only reason I know it happens either ways...

yes frozen pipes burst all the time.

my question is, what if you freeze water in something much stronger. for example, a solid steel box with 2 foot thick walls. would the water break through that or is their a limit?

[dna9488]

Did I say that?


The question is, would the same thing happen if the water would have been frozen by a different means instead of liquid nitrogen which I would think would make the pipe weak and brittle.

I also want to know if they had used stronger materials like really thick steel or something like titanium etc.. would the same thing happen?

Is there a limit to the amount of pressure that freezing water can expand and force or will it break everything in its way?

To answer your first question yes, all liquid nitrogen is doing is cooling the water down to freezing. Nitrogen and steel DO NOT react at all. Since room temperature is warm, the vapors are evaporating before hitting the pipe(s)

Stronger material means more money for companies to invest in. Also with different compounds being used in piping, you have to realize the half life of these compounds and the fact that some of these different compounds start breaking down and releasing toxins through the pipes and into our drinking system.

If you have a piece of titanium, steal, or metal being able to expand, that is unsafe. Steel and metal naturally are not meant to be flexible. Now if they make a synthetic isomer to allow that, i would be interested.

Titanium has some flexibility, and it will be able to withstand certain amounts of water pressure before bursting. Also, there is no way to replace pipes made for titanium:
A) its very expensive
B) If titanium starts to break down in our pipes, it will lead to our drinking water and be very toxic to humans that drink it.

[dna9488]

my question is, what if you freeze water in something much stronger. for example, a solid steel box with 2 foot thick walls. would the water break through that or is their a limit?

It would crack like glass, but never shatter.

[NewbieChris]

yes frozen pipes burst all the time.

my question is, what if you freeze water in something much stronger. for example, a solid steel box with 2 foot thick walls. would the water break through that or is their a limit?

Depending on how think and temperature absorbent the surrounding material...I have no idea...

At some point you just have to realize that there is a force pushing back on the expanding water. The question is, at what point does that force become strong enough?

[Bouncer]

To answer your first question yes, all liquid nitrogen is doing is cooling the water down to freezing. Nitrogen and steel DO NOT react at all. Since room temperature is warm, the vapors are evaporating before hitting the pipe(s)

Stronger material means more money for companies to invest in. Also with different compounds being used in piping, you have to realize the half life of these compounds and the fact that some of these different compounds start breaking down and releasing toxins through the pipes and into our drinking system.

If you have a piece of titanium, steal, or metal being able to expand, that is unsafe. Steel and metal naturally are not meant to be flexible. Now if they make a synthetic isomer to allow that, i would be interested.

Titanium has some flexibility, and it will be able to withstand certain amounts of water pressure before bursting. Also, there is no way to replace pipes made for titanium:
A) its very expensive
B) If titanium starts to break down in our pipes, it will lead to our drinking water and be very toxic to humans that drink it.

you failed to address the main question.

for our purposes we are not concerned about the cost or safety of the material etc..

i am simply asking if there is a limit to the expanding pressure of the water. if the water was in a solid steel box with 2 feet thick sides would the water still be able to break through?

[Bouncer]

It would crack like glass, but never shatter.

so you are saying that there is no limit then? you are saying even if the walls of the solid box was 100 feet thick solid steel the expanding pressure inside would break it apart?

[wnabeabeast]

It has to do with the volume of the water. If you have a 1x1 space and you fill it with water and you put 5' thick walls around it, no it won't break that wall, but if you have 200 gallons of water and you confine it in a smaller space with 5' wall around it, it'll break through.

[Bouncer]

At some point you just have to realize that there is a force pushing back on the expanding water. The question is, at what point does that force become strong enough?

exactly. and what gives in. does the water simply not expand and freeze? or can water freeze somehow with not expanding?

[dna9488]

you failed to address the main question.

for our purposes we are not concerned about the cost or safety of the material etc..

i am simply asking if there is a limit to the expanding pressure of the water. if the water was in a solid steel box with 2 feet thick sides would the water still be able to break through?

Read post #9

At some point, if the material containing the water is very strong, the box or whatever will be fine. What you will have is pressure. Lots and lots of pressure. That pressure will build up and stay that way until it is released. If it is not released than it will stay built up until the half life of the box is met, and than shatter.