Winston Churchill speach

[Juiced1]

Yes Germany attacked Russia. But Russia did very little to attack Germany. They simply defended themselves in russia

It.was.well.after when they moved.into germany

Yes, but Germany thought it was going to be easy in Russia but they had to send so many troops there, and the cold winters, stalingrad etc... crippled the German army. They had over half of their army in Russia, this was Hitler's critical mistake.

The underestimated the Soviet Union and got crippled over there.

[Scrumhalf]

Lets both shut up and see if he answers the question or bottles it, starting from...now!

Geez... some of us do have to work, you know. Had to attend a meeting, so excuse for not replying right away.. :)

Anyway, the history of anti-Semitism is long and sad as everyone knows. Blood libel was of course a tried and true option. The church had its part to play by overtly suggesting Jewish culpability in the death of Christ and this was employed during the Inquisition and the Crusades to justify the killing of Jews. The Jews were rarely given full citizenship and were forced to live in just certain areas (the Pale of settlement in Western Russia, for example) and only do certain trades (money lending, etc.). This of course resulted in the self-fulfilling prophecy of them being treated as outsiders and a convenient scapegoat for all ills, real of imagined.

The history of Jews in Europe is long and well documented, bro. Don't need me to recount it. What is clear is that nobody deserved to be treated the way they were by the leaders whose ostensible job should be the welfare of the people.

[Mr I]

The soviet union did most of the dirty work against the Germans. That is a true statment. If Germany didn't have so many troops fighting the Russians do you think the allies would have been successful if Germany were 100% healthy and focused on the allies?

My statment is not stupid, it is accurate. Churchill and the USA did their part, but bloodiest fighting and casualties were on the eastern front. This isn't debatable.

The fact that you said I (as a Brit) should thank the russian leader instead of Churchill is stupid my friend. Stalin couldn't have given a fuck if Britain had fallen, he was just protecting his own future, and you could equally argue that without GB and the US, Russia would have been overthrown.

Listen chaps, if Hitler had have played it different and concentrated on one front at a time then it may have turned out different. Frankly if he had overthrown russia and then got the support of its people, things would be a lot different.

My point is this, US and russia had formidable forces no doubt, russia and the US didn't like each other.

Churchill was the jam that made the sandwhich and held it together and formed plans, did deals, he brokered the alliance and was allso a great military leader, out of the three or four including hitler, he by far and a way achieved the most with the least resources for his Country, FACT.

[Scrumhalf]

I've got a lot of respect for the British fighting against Germany. Before 1941, they were pretty much alone. Yes, the US helped with arms and supplies, but the fighting was done entirely by the British. After Operation Barbarossa began of course, Germany had to fight on two fronts and this without a doubt helped the British.

Let's also not trivialize the role the US played before Pearl Harbor. Yes, there were not significant direct involvement, but without Lend-lease, the Russians would not have been able to stave of the Germans. They barely did it as it is, at Leningrad, Stalingrad and the Pripet Marshes.

[Mr I]

Geez... some of us do have to work, you know. Had to attend a meeting, so excuse for not replying right away.. :)

Anyway, the history of anti-Semitism is long and sad as everyone knows. Blood libel was of course a tried and true option. The church had its part to play by overtly suggesting Jewish culpability in the death of Christ and this was employed during the Inquisition and the Crusades to justify the killing of Jews. The Jews were rarely given full citizenship and were forced to live in just certain areas (the Pale of settlement in Western Russia, for example) and only do certain trades (money lending, etc.). This of course resulted in the self-fulfilling prophecy of them being treated as outsiders and a convenient scapegoat for all ills, real of imagined.

The history of Jews in Europe is long and well documented, bro. Don't need me to recount it. What is clear is that nobody deserved to be treated the way they were by the leaders whose ostensible job should be the welfare of the people.

why were they picked on more than any?

[Scrumhalf]

Because they followed a different religion and were easy to demonize?

[Mr I]

Because they followed a different religion and were easy to demonize?

I don't know either:)

[Bouncer]

Yes, but Germany thought it was going to be easy in Russia but they had to send so many troops there, and the cold winters, stalingrad etc... crippled the German army. They had over half of their army in Russia, this was Hitler's critical mistake.

The underestimated the Soviet Union and got crippled over there.

sure the act of a bogged down invasion into russia took a lot out of the germans. but that was purly defensive on russias part. it was america and the brits that took it to em on the offensive!

[Scrumhalf]

I don't know either:)

They didn't do anything to deserve the treatment they got.

[Mr I]

They didn't do anything to deserve the treatment they got.

Totally agree

[Mr I]

This was a good debate

[Bouncer]

This was a good debate