Very Scary Situation - Vertebral Artery Dissection

[Chadd77]

As long as they're not name calling I'm actually interested in hearing both of their responses. No reason this topic can't be discussed in an adult manor.

[redback]

The problem with coming here for advice is that most are bias. Guys like Mr I have used gear their whole lives and will do anything they can to justify using because they are drug addicts (no offense Mr I). If you are using a substance that thickens your blood and you have had a blood clot then the choice seems pretty clear to me.

[Bouncer]

The problem with coming here for advice is that most are bias. Guys like Mr I have used gear their whole lives and will do anything they can to justify using because they are drug addicts (no offense Mr I). If you are using a substance that thickens your blood and you have had a blood clot then the choice seems pretty clear to me.

While I understand the drug addict label (i am one myself), it doesn't discredit knowledge when it comes to personal steroid use. Lets not forget, chadd falls under the "personal steroid abuser" category himself in the eyes of the mainstream. There are not many doctors on this planet that share our level of experience when it comes specifically to steroids for personal use. As a matter of fact, a doctor used to come to my gym in edison NJ and we'd talk steroids at least once a week. he was absolutely the guy to go for advice if you had the flu but it was me he was coming to for advice when he developed gyno from a prohormone cycle... he was clueless about how to go about curing it.

are we the people to ask about blood clot issues? absolutely not. i agree with you there. but chadds issue is not just about a bloot clot. he is also a steroid user. he did the right thing and went to the doctors for that main issue and got it taken care of. he came to us for the steroid side of his issue. our knowledge on steroids as far as personal use goes is far superior to a general doctor I guarantee you.

[Mr I]

^ Agree, and the word addict is subjective. There's nothing in me that craves other than craving the ability to train regular at a higher output. I was off between age 19 and 26 and again for two years in my 30s. I would have stopped all while injured but for the ability to heal faster with.

I guess there is also a small element of psychology and energy I enjoy in a TrT context also.

Anyway back to the subject of this thread I agree all that B says above.

[Bouncer]

You want the benefits that Steroids provide and you'd have a hard time dealing with things without those benefits. How is that different from an alcoholic or rec drug user who wants the benefits of those substances? I think we're addict's bro.

If I'm gonna pick a drug to be an addict of, Steroids is my choice by a mile.

[Mr I]

I would say not because they're a PED, but physiologically I'm happy off once the lull passes

[TKD]

Mr I, what you are saying about being an addict reminds me of rado saying he never gets stoned. Honesty with yourself is a huge part of using something as responsibly as possible. Any addict that gets clean feels fine after that. It's the staying off part that's the struggle. It's not about a crave, it's about having what you think will make you feel better when you aren't feeling your best.

Next I am curious what you do for a living. I'm not asking to be condescending. You have to admit how ridiculous you sound telling Turbo he doesn't know what he is talking about, unless you are a doctor as well though.

[Mr I]

Next I am curious what you do for a living. I'm not asking to be condescending. You have to admit how ridiculous you sound telling Turbo he doesn't know what he is talking about, unless you are a doctor as well though.

My career is my business and I've nothing against Turbo, not sure I said what your claiming and nothing I've said is ridiculous.

I'm curious as to why you want to stir things?

If you have something germane to add that you think will benefit chadd please go ahead

[TKD]

Not trying to stir things up, just providing perspective. You told scrum to stay out of things he has no experience with, but argue Turbo's posts. So I asked to better understand your background.

I'm not going to give broscience advice. Being the husband of an RN soon to be FNP, I would go with what turbo says. But that should mean nothing since I'm not the person trained in medicine.

[Mr I]

Not trying to stir things up, just providing perspective. You told scrum to stay out of things he has no experience with, but argue Turbo's posts. So I asked to better understand your background.

I'm not going to give broscience advice. Being the husband of an RN soon to be FNP, I would go with what turbo says. But that should mean nothing since I'm not the person trained in medicine.

Oh so now its about what I said to scrum

Well I guess I'd say I've made all the points I felt relevant above.

[Keiser]

To make a very long story short after many MRI’s and CT scans I was told I had a vertebral artery dissection. Basically I had a tear of my artery in my shoulder which caused a small blood clot. I basically had a mini stroke. My vision returned to normal after a couple hours. Usually there is trauma to the area where the tear occurred. That is the only strange part. I didn’t have an event that I can remember causing it. My guess is that I did it at the gym when training back.

I'm surprised nobody is questioning this part of the story. I can't imagine that this is a common thing. You really think it happened from lifting? Back day? A torn artery in your shoulder from training back at the gym? I'm having trouble buying that.

Think about all the people who lift heavy, powerlifters, crossfit, football players, rugby, wrestlers, MMA/BJJ, Boxers. I've never heard of this injury happening from physical sports or activities. I think if this were a common thing, athletes would be dropping like flies. I've also never heard anyone on the boards talk about this happening to them and I've been on lots of bodybuilding boards over the past 10-12 years.

Are you sure you just didn't have thick blood from the higher red blood cell count from the gear? Had you donated blood lately?

[redback]

While I understand the drug addict label (i am one myself), it doesn't discredit knowledge when it comes to personal steroid use. Lets not forget, chadd falls under the "personal steroid abuser" category himself in the eyes of the mainstream. There are not many doctors on this planet that share our level of experience when it comes specifically to steroids for personal use. As a matter of fact, a doctor used to come to my gym in edison NJ and we'd talk steroids at least once a week. he was absolutely the guy to go for advice if you had the flu but it was me he was coming to for advice when he developed gyno from a prohormone cycle... he was clueless about how to go about curing it.

are we the people to ask about blood clot issues? absolutely not. i agree with you there. but chadds issue is not just about a bloot clot. he is also a steroid user. he did the right thing and went to the doctors for that main issue and got it taken care of. he came to us for the steroid side of his issue. our knowledge on steroids as far as personal use goes is far superior to a general doctor I guarantee you.

I do agrre with that and it wasn't meant to be in any way negative towards this forum.

[Chadd77]

I'm surprised nobody is questioning this part of the story. I can't imagine that this is a common thing. You really think it happened from lifting? Back day? A torn artery in your shoulder from training back at the gym? I'm having trouble buying that.

Think about all the people who lift heavy, powerlifters, crossfit, football players, rugby, wrestlers, MMA/BJJ, Boxers. I've never heard of this injury happening from physical sports or activities. I think if this were a common thing, athletes would be dropping like flies. I've also never heard anyone on the boards talk about this happening to them and I've been on lots of bodybuilding boards over the past 10-12 years.

Are you sure you just didn't have thick blood from the higher red blood cell count from the gear? Had you donated blood lately?

I've also been on many boards over the past 13+ years and have not heard of it. I’ve been an athlete my entire life and have never heard of it. A vertebral artery dissection (VAD) cannot occur because you have thick blood. It is an interior tear of the artery that occurs due to trauma to that area. Some completely tear it which then requires surgery. They are not common but usually occur in younger active adults. Only a very small percentage of those that experience it have what’s called a spontaneous VAD. This means they suffer a stroke or really bad headaches without ever experiencing any pain or trauma in that area of the neck. The first doctor that saw me at the hospital said that I was his 3rd case of VAD that he’s ever seen. The neurologist that I saw just transferred to the hospital from Vegas and he’s seen a lot more of them. He said he just saw a guy that had a VAD from a MMA fight. With all the reading I’ve done a lot of those who experienced was done while doing crossfit. Others did while playing hockey, wrestling, lifting at the gym, and other physical sports. Most people that tear the artery don’t even realize they did it. After my artery had a tear I went to the gym the next day and trained chest. Then the day after I was getting ready to play soccer when it happened. Mine seems like a very mild case. I tore mine low in the neck which is better than tearing it closer to the skull/brain. My tear was also very small. The neurologist said that if you had to have a VAD I did it the right way. Most people are hospitalized for weeks and some cannot return to work for many months after. They suffer from terrible migraines and feel nauseous throughout the day. Besides having limitations on what I can and cannot do, I feel myself. That’s what’s hard about it for me.

[Bouncer]

I'm sure a big reason we may not hear much about this aside from it being rare is that it may be something that goes undiagnosed. Maybe some people get even more mild cases than chadd did and they never go to the doc. Hell, about a year ago I woke up with the room spinning and my vision blurry for about 2 hours. Who knows what exactly that was. Could have just been an inner ear type common issue but I cant say for sure. Happened once and never again.

[rado]

Mr I, what you are saying about being an addict reminds me of rado saying he never gets stoned. Honesty with yourself is a huge part of using something as responsibly as possible. Any addict that gets clean feels fine after that. It's the staying off part that's the struggle. It's not about a crave, it's about having what you think will make you feel better when you aren't feeling your best.

Next I am curious what you do for a living. I'm not asking to be condescending. You have to admit how ridiculous you sound telling Turbo he doesn't know what he is talking about, unless you are a doctor as well though.

Define this term...It's subjective. Do I get high, stoned, feeling good, etc...Yes I do and don't deny it. Now it's the intent or how much I decide to push it is what makes this "category" of being stoned, feeling good, high, etc...I don't deny I'm a smoker, NOT an addict.

An addict NEEDS it, breaks down when no resources available. ME? I'm always ok if I can't get it and take my time when it's around. When I lived in shit OH, I smoked once, yea once. So I don't say "I'm high"...I do say that I smoked and those that know me, know exactly what I mean.

I'll leave it at that because this is about chadds issue. If you want to have a discussion about this, do a thread.