Mom burns daughter alive for eloping

[jack tors]

Scrum we are a world of over 7 billion and growing with ever increasing cost. an advanced nation absolutely must consider unnecessary cost and efficiency.

Your solution of keeping serious criminals/murderers/rapist alive in a cage for the entirety of their life is not only more cruel but it's incredibly costly.

IMO your solution is not one of advancement but one of cruelty and cost.

It costs NYS $50K a year for each prisoner.

[Bouncer]

It costs NYS $50K a year for each prisoner.

50k that could go towards education so that teachers don't have to pay for school supplies out of their own pocket...

But noooooo, that's not something an advanced nation should be doing... we should be spending that money to keep a dangerous criminal locked up for life while we wait for him to die of natural causes because anything else would be savage and vengeful.... fuck sake.

Let me be clear. I'm with scrum when it comes to rehabilitation programs for nonviolent criminals. But when it comes to his stance on violent criminals we could not disagree more.

[Scrumhalf]

Bro, we are spending $610 Billion a year on killing people in the Middle East. You want to save 50K by killing people here?

[MattG]

Nothing close to war costs (which sickens me as well)...but a Google search showed in 2007 the prison system cost the taxpayers 74 billion dollars...in 2013 there were 2.22 million ppl incarcerated. That comes out to 110 billion. I'm sure it's even worse now. Ridiculous how much we pay for these parasites.

[Scrumhalf]

Be careful, Matt. A large fraction of people incarcerated in the American justice system are first time or nonviolent offenders, largely caught up in the WOD. They are not parasites - to the contrary, they are people who should never have been there in the first place and are needlessly being denied a chance to be contributing members of society. The fact that we have more people incarcerated per capita than any other country is a disgrace.

[Bouncer]

Bro, we are spending $610 Billion a year on killing people in the Middle East. You want to save 50K by killing people here?

What the hell has that got to do with our specific argument?

[Scrumhalf]

If you want to save money to direct towards education, there are much better and worthwhile ways to do it without summary execution of undesirables.

[MattG]

Be careful, Matt. A large fraction of people incarcerated in the American justice system are first time or nonviolent offenders, largely caught up in the WOD. They are not parasites - to the contrary, they are people who should never have been there in the first place and are needlessly being denied a chance to be contributing members of society. The fact that we have more people incarcerated per capita than any other country is a disgrace.

Oh for sure, I didn't find the exact metric for murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc...I'm guessing their portion still costs us well over 10 billion per year, and throughout their lifespan spent behind bars well...multiply that by 40 years

[Scrumhalf]

Incarceration of violent and unrehabitable criminals is definitely a cost for society. It is one of many things that a society has to decide whether to spend money on. Drug rehab programs is another one. As a society, we need to ask ourselves the question - do we incur the expense of separating violent criminals from the rest of society, or do we put them to death? I don't believe that the state should have the ability to take away someone's life. Obviously, a others have a different opinion. My conscience does not permit me to do so and even under circumstances that Bouncer described in an earlier post, as heartbroken as I would be, I would petition the judge to spare the guy's life. I would derive no pleasure whatsoever from him losing his, and putting his family though the same pain and suffering as he put mine.

[Bouncer]

Scrum we are in absolute agreement over war spending. That money could absolutely be used for a better purpose. But that doesn't change the fact that you somehow think keeping someone behind bars for life with the end goal to wait out there death is somehow a smart or less "advanced" idea. It's cruelty and it's stupid to be blunt. If I didn't know better I'd think I was talking to a religious person.

[Scrumhalf]

I just don't think the state should have the power to take away the life of a person. There's nothing religious about it.

[Bouncer]

Yet you believe that person that DID take a life has the right to live with a roof over his head and be fed 3 nice meals per day. You believe it's the states responsibility to care for and pay for his life until the end. The logic here scrum.. where is it? You empower a violent criminal and cost the nation with your logic. The very family members of the victim that pay taxes are in effect forced to care for this violent criminal that took their loved one..

I don't think I've ever disagreed with you more.

[redback]

Yet you believe that person that DID take a life has the right to live with a roof over his head and be fed 3 nice meals per day. You believe it's the states responsibility to care for and pay for his life until the end. The logic here scrum.. where is it? You empower a violent criminal and cost the nation with your logic. The very family members of the victim that pay taxes are in effect forced to care for this violent criminal that took their loved one..

I don't think I've ever disagreed with you more.

Isn't murder still murder no matter who carries it out?

[Bouncer]

Absolute justified murder for the benefit of all parties.

A life behind bars is torture. You guys have no issue with life long costly torture but somehow in your mind a quick death that will save millions over a lifetime is the less advanced thing to do...