Miami Beach has run out of sand. Now what?

[jack tors]

You sound like turbo more as of late, a pessimistic person. Ever since the election, your posts are or seem this way.

Nah he's find..I'd say analytical not pessimistic
The republicans have it wrong its something to pay attention too.
Were essentially dumping gasoline on the fire.

6 degrees of climate change will change the world.

[Bouncer]

US businesses push against Trump's attempts to dismiss climate change

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...p-us-companies

[redback]

Climate change is a massive issue with building design/architecture over here. The federal government has legislation that impacts design and construction. I think it's safe to say they acknowledge the impact humans have had. We are responsible for billions of tonnes of greenhouse gasses every year. It's not really even up for debate anymore.

[Bouncer]

We are responsible for billions of tonnes of greenhouse gasses every year. It's not really even up for debate anymore.

nobody is debating that here.

[redback]

nobody is debating that here.

Oh I thought you were questioning how much we have sped things up

[Bouncer]

Oh I thought you were questioning how much we have sped things up

I am. Do you have that answer?

[redback]

You're doubting that Billions of tonnes of greenhouse gases each year resulting from human consumption has impacted climate change?

[Bouncer]

You're doubting that Billions of tonnes of greenhouse gases each year resulting from human consumption has impacted climate change?

I'm not doubting that at all. The debate me and scrum were having was by how much have we sped that process up.

[Scrumhalf]

I am. Do you have that answer?

Surely you jest.

The evidence that human activities have accelerated global warming to unprecedented levels is overwhelming. To a point that there is virtual unanimity among the world's climate scientists about it.

I can post some data tomorrow if you like.

[Keiser]

If you are not into politics, not political, or on the fence. This issue alone should make you side with the democrats. Gore has been talking about climate change for 15+ years now. Something like 90+ percent of all scientists are aligned on it and pretty much every country is onboard with the science including China. American conservatives are the only people on the entire earth who think it's not real. What does that tell you?

[Bouncer]

Surely you jest.

The evidence that human activities have accelerated global warming to unprecedented levels is overwhelming. To a point that there is virtual unanimity among the world's climate scientists about it.

I can post some data tomorrow if you like.

Surely I dont.

I can't be any more clear here. I don't deny that humans have accelerated global warming.

My question is by how much. 100 years? 500 years? 10,000 years? 1,000,000 years?

The earth would have warmed to current temps and beyond in a natural warming cycle. This is a fact. The earth has been much colder and much warmer in the past. It warms and cools in cycles. The science is very clear on this. The dinosaur era was a much warmer earth compared to today. The mammoth era was a much colder earth compared to today. Humans obviously played no part in that natural cycle.

I'm simply asking the question. How long would the earth have taken to get to current levels if humans had never existed. In other words how much have we sped up the natural process by pumping shit into the air the last 200 odd years?

By simply asking this question you guys seem hell bent on accusing me of denying global warming and the human role. Asking questions and debating a subject is not at all the same as denial.

[Scrumhalf]

I think I know why we seem to be talking past each other.

You shouldn't be thinking of the problem the way you are, that is, how much faster are humans making the warming happen.

It's not just that. The biggest problem is that humans are making the peak of the warming/cooling cycle much, much higher than it hsa been in a VERY long time, certainly since well before humans have been on earth.

See this graph of CO2 levels over time that is a good proxy for temperature, since CO2 is one of the primary greenhouse gases.



What you see is that since the mid-20th century that has been an unprecedented (in human times) rise in CO2 levels, far above anything we have seen. This is very bad.

The estimate is that we get to about 450ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere, not too far from where we are today, there is no turning back. The temperature rise will be so high that you are going to get positive feedback. Enough ice sheets will melt that they won't reflect sunlight any more and this means that more energy will be absorbed by the earth, and this will melt more ice.

So, don't think so much in terms of whether humans have ACCELERATED the arrival of the peak. Instead, consider the overwhelming evidence that human activity has made the peak MUCH higher than any time in say the last half a million years.

Here is a good site that summarizes some of the key points:

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

[Scrumhalf]

Let me add that I don't mean to say that the rate of increase of temperature is not a problem and only the absolute maximum is.

The rate of increase is also a major problem, because most animals and plants react badly to rapid changes from the normal.

Here is a very good article sumarizing how the global average temperature has gone up SIGNIFICANTLy in the last year. We are running 1 to 1.4C above "normal" long term average. And 0.4C of that 1.4C has happened in just the last year.

NASA confirms February 2016's shocking global warming temperature record.

Read the article. It is a good one and Eric Holthaus really knows what he is talking about.

Here is another scary article on the point of no return as far as climate change is concerned. The most scary takeaway from the article for me whas the realization by the climate scientists that if anything, their models were too CONSERVATIVE, which means that they downplayed the global warming. Reality will, in all likelihood, be worse than predicted, and as the article shows, we are already seeing evidence of that.

The Point of No Return: Climate Change Nightmares Are Already Here - Rolling Stone

[Turbo3000]

Let me add that I don't mean to say that the rate of increase of temperature is not a problem and only the absolute maximum is.

The rate of increase is also a major problem, because most animals and plants react badly to rapid changes from the normal.

Here is a very good article sumarizing how the global average temperature has gone up SIGNIFICANTLy in the last year. We are running 1 to 1.4C above "normal" long term average. And 0.4C of that 1.4C has happened in just the last year.

NASA confirms February 2016's shocking global warming temperature record.

Read the article. It is a good one and Eric Holthaus really knows what he is talking about.

Here is another scary article on the point of no return as far as climate change is concerned. The most scary takeaway from the article for me whas the realization by the climate scientists that if anything, their models were too CONSERVATIVE, which means that they downplayed the global warming. Reality will, in all likelihood, be worse than predicted, and as the article shows, we are already seeing evidence of that.

The Point of No Return: Climate Change Nightmares Are Already Here - Rolling Stone

I totally agree.

My problem. That people actually believe something is going to change. Nothing will change. 1000 politicians will not fix a problem created by BILLIONS of people. These politicians fly around the world to enjoy fancy dinners and "talk" about the issues. I remember solar energy and electric cars being the big topic when I was a kid, about 28 years ago. For every nation that halts wealth generation for earth preservation, a second nation decides to pursue wealth.

[redback]

I totally agree.

My problem. That people actually believe something is going to change. Nothing will change. 1000 politicians will not fix a problem created by BILLIONS of people. These politicians fly around the world to enjoy fancy dinners and "talk" about the issues. I remember solar energy and electric cars being the big topic when I was a kid, about 28 years ago. For every nation that halts wealth generation for earth preservation, a second nation decides to pursue wealth.

There is a lot people can do as far as reducing the effects of climate change. Its all about educating people. As I mentioned above, over here we have laws put in place across different industries that are designed to reduce emissions substantially. It gets taught. It about awareness and implementing new procedures.