Trump Is President

[lipripper]

B honestly it don't matter how good he explains it.,haters still gonna hate.,funny thing is all that's been out there. But noonesees it for what it is....He's not against it.....He just wants it to be fair to the u.s.....Pretty simple really...Tree huggers see it completely different....He's just against it. Just hold America to the standard n make us pay...Everyone else gets a pass.....Lol....Just like the...Iran Nuke deal..,wtf...Did we get....,....Lmfao

[Scrumhalf]

Guys - all goals in the Paris agreement are voluntary. The timelines are set by each country. China and India are moving incredibly aggressively towards their goals, far more aggressively than any other country. They are NOT sitting still. China has cancelled plans for over 100 coal fired power plants and India has said they will not build another coal plant.

Again, the Paris goals are voluntary. The US quit the pact for NO reason. We could have adjusted our goals while being in the pact. All we did by quitting is generated a bunch of ill will towards us. Totally stupid and you know why? Because Trump and his band of idiots could not be bothered to even understand what the Paris agreement was all about and the details. That has been the consistent problem with this administration - their refusal to really get a deeper understanding on anything.


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[Scrumhalf]

First of all, there is nothing "unfair" about the pact. Any difference between countries is to account for the fact that Western countries got to industrialize and develop their economies with no constraints and now, when 3rd world countries are trying to improve their economies, we are changing the rules of the game. Now admittedly, the rules need to be changed because of climate change, so industrialized countries need to give the others a break to allow them to catch up, either by financial means or more time or whatever. That's the reason for the perceived differences in timelines, or having a global fund to help other countries, etc.

We can't just say well, we got to pollute the fuck out of the earth since the Industrial Revolution and get our economies advanced, but you guys can't do it because we are going to put all these new rules in, and by the way, we are not going to help or do anything to assist you to get there under the new rules.

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[lipripper]

First of all, there is nothing "unfair" about the pact. Any difference between countries is to account for the fact that Western countries got to industrialize and develop their economies with no constraints and now, when 3rd world countries are trying to improve their economies, we are changing the rules of the game. Now admittedly, the rules need to be changed because of climate change, so industrialized countries need to give the others a break to allow them to catch up, either by financial means or more time or whatever. That's the reason for the perceived differences in timelines, or having a global fund to help other countries, etc.

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Good points.still seems like we catch the brunt of it and we have the most restrictive laws. China can do way better.,they choose not to while we have been...I won't accept their excuses no reason for us to take the brunt of it. India either..The technology is there...They choose not to use it and blame cost as a factor....Where would we be if we did that?...Just a perspective

[Scrumhalf]

Ripper, China and India are MORE aggressive than ANY Western country. Those are the facts. Remember, they are starting from a much worse place. They have to balance their goals of strong 5+% growth to try to catch up with Western countries with environmental issues. You know why solar prices are dropping like a rock? Because China is so committed to solar that they are producing solar panels are an incredible rate and flooding the market. The economies of scale are so amazing that right now, India has solar rates that are on par or even cheaper than fossil power per KwH if I remember right.

The big mistake we are making is getting out like I mention. The goals and targets in the Paris accord are voluntary. All we had to do, even if we convince ourselves that we are moving too fast and impacting the fossil jobs, etc is to simply change our goals. That's it. That's all we had to do. No need to quit. What did quitting achieve? We are now the laughing stock of the world, along with Syria. And Assad can at least claim that he was preoccupied lol...

This was an unnecessary and short sighted move. It accomplished nothing other than to perhaps satisfy some fraction of his core supporter base. But the problem there of course is that the coal jobs ain't coming back. We have too much cheap natural gas. And there are at least 10 times as many jobs in clean energy as there are in coal.

What we are going does not make sense on ANY front - scientific, economic, or moral.

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[Scrumhalf]

Let me also add that I work in the semiconductor industry, so I have a somewhat above average insight into the solar industry.

Germany and China are VERY aggressive and strong players in this industry. And the Scandinavian in wind. The US needs to compete with them in securing contracts to install solar panels in -where? You guessed it - the country with some of the best sunshine potential in the world - India. The same country that is going gangbusters on the move to solar.

Clean energy is the industry of the 21st century. We need to be in there fighting for a piece of the pie, not walking away. Coal is dying. Yes, we need to help the coal miners but by helping them transition away from that industry, not by continuing to defy logic and propping it up.

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[lipripper]

I agree we didn't have to drop out. But I also agree with his perspective of...A better deal....If you will. Your saying the same thing by us changing our goals. I'm betting it's all he's doing.just drawing a lot of unwanted attention to it this way....And keeping a campaign promise by doing it( not that I agree with the tactic)..Changing something to better some how continue getting our people back to work....Not talking just about coal either.

[Scrumhalf]

There is no "deal!" That's the baffling part. The Paris Accord is not a binding agreement. He can change the goals anytime he wants. For the life of me, I don't know what he wants. I think the problem is that he has no idea what the accord really says.

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[Scrumhalf]

Here's the thing about the Trump presidency. He won the election as an idea man. He described these grand visions that he had. He was going to get jobs, he was going to get better healthcare for all, etc. There is nothing wrong with any of those goals and even Bernie said right after the elections that he was willing to work with Trump on those goals because those were Bernie's high level goals as well - good jobs, support for the disadvantaged, healthcare etc.

There's nothing wrong with being an idea man with the grand visions, but one of the downsides of being one is that by definition, you are not going to able to deal with the details. To fix that, you need to surround yourself with details men. And that's where Trump has failed. He has surrounded himself not with a bunch of guys who are going to sharpen their pencils and work on the nitty gritty details and the fine print, but with the biggest bunch of idealistic and incompetent assclowns around. From Tillerson to Pruitt to DeVos, these people are incompetent. Instead of guiding the President and fine tuning his vision into sensible policy, they have perverted the vision into something grotesque on both the national and international level. And that to me is the real tragedy of the Trump presidency.

Believe me, I may come across as an Anti Trump guy and I certainly have no admiration for his contempt for women, his racism and his treatment of the disabled, but I view his presidency as a lost opportunity. He came in as an outsider with a chance to shake up the way politics is always done but instead of draining the swamp, he hasn't stocked it with bigger and scarier alligators.

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[Turbo3000]

Here's the thing about the Trump presidency. He won the election as an idea man. He described these grand visions that he had. He was going to get jobs, he was going to get better healthcare for all, etc. There is nothing wrong with any of those goals and even Bernie said right after the elections that he was willing to work with Trump on those goals because those were Bernie's high level goals as well - good jobs, support for the disadvantaged, healthcare etc.

There's nothing wrong with being an idea man with the grand visions, but one of the downsides of being one is that by definition, you are not going to able to deal with the details. To fix that, you need to surround yourself with details men. And that's where Trump has failed. He has surrounded himself not with a bunch of guys who are going to sharpen their pencils and work on the nitty gritty details and the fine print, but with the biggest bunch of idealistic and incompetent assclowns around. From Tillerson to Pruitt to DeVos, these people are incompetent. Instead of guiding the President and fine tuning his vision into sensible policy, they have perverted the vision into something grotesque on both the national and international level. And that to me is the real tragedy of the Trump presidency.

Believe me, I may come across as an Anti Trump guy and I certainly have no admiration for his contempt for women, his racism and his treatment of the disabled, but I view his presidency as a lost opportunity. He came in as an outsider with a chance to shake up the way politics is always done but instead of draining the swamp, he hasn't stocked it with bigger and scarier alligators.

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He surrounds himself with "yes" men.

And thanks for your summaries. I haven't been following this issue, just started doing some light reading on it. Appreciate your input.

[Scrumhalf]

Guys, Dr. Michael Mann of Penn State is one of the pre-eminent climate scientists of today. He has impeccable credentials and he talks about the common talking points of the politicians and dismantles them one by one.

So, please get a coffee, sit down for 30 minutes and listen to this interview at the link below. I promise that you will come away with a much better understanding of the issues of climate change than you had. Trust me . Prof. Mann knows what he is talking about.

Remember, there are no liberals or conservatives, no left or right in this argument. There are only those who listen to the science and those who willfully choose to ignore it.

So, please listen to this.

https://soundcloud.com/smerconishsho...climate-claims

[Turbo3000]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...mate-fund.html

I don't see China or India on the list........

I'll give India a pass, but China? Fuck that.

[Bouncer]

Here's the thing about the Trump presidency. He won the election as an idea man. He described these grand visions that he had. He was going to get jobs, he was going to get better healthcare for all, etc. There is nothing wrong with any of those goals and even Bernie said right after the elections that he was willing to work with Trump on those goals because those were Bernie's high level goals as well - good jobs, support for the disadvantaged, healthcare etc.

There's nothing wrong with being an idea man with the grand visions, but one of the downsides of being one is that by definition, you are not going to able to deal with the details. To fix that, you need to surround yourself with details men. And that's where Trump has failed. He has surrounded himself not with a bunch of guys who are going to sharpen their pencils and work on the nitty gritty details and the fine print, but with the biggest bunch of idealistic and incompetent assclowns around. From Tillerson to Pruitt to DeVos, these people are incompetent. Instead of guiding the President and fine tuning his vision into sensible policy, they have perverted the vision into something grotesque on both the national and international level. And that to me is the real tragedy of the Trump presidency.

Believe me, I may come across as an Anti Trump guy and I certainly have no admiration for his contempt for women, his racism and his treatment of the disabled, but I view his presidency as a lost opportunity. He came in as an outsider with a chance to shake up the way politics is always done but instead of draining the swamp, he hasn't stocked it with bigger and scarier alligators.

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This is exactly what I was trying to get across the other day when me and rip were having the "improve the military" conversation. I don't think Trump actually gives a shit about the details. I think he will just add a few more air craft carriers and submarines to the fleet so he can show his voter base and say "look I improved the military".

[Scrumhalf]

Preach on, Arnold! "Only I can go back in time!" Ahahaha...

https://twitter.com/attn/status/870446506477670400

[Bouncer]

Love it.

http://www.iflscience.com/environmen...agreement/all/