London car attack and knife attack

[Bouncer]

You are misunderstanding me.

I am all for doing something. We have to decide how much we want to intervene.

Do I like what the Taliban or ISIL stand for? Of course not. They are brutal and reprehensible in every way. I am perfectly fine with saying that we want to do whatever possible, including military action, to remove them from power.

BUT, we have to be willing to face the consequences. It's a war and they are not fighting a conventional tank battle in the deserts in the Middle East. We know how that went the last time Saddam tried. No, they are going to do exactly what they are doing now. And the consequences are that we are going to have these attacks on an ongoing basis. We can reduce it with vigilance, but it is going to keep happeninng.

Now, we can be smart at HOW we fight these guys. But that requires putting boots on the ground, by going around winning the hearts of the people, by controlling territory, so that they DON'T get brainwashed or coerced into becoming suicide bombers. It is NOT by dropping bombs from 20,000 feet or doing drone strikes that are as likely to kill an innocent civilian as a terrorist. By indiscriminate attacks, we are feeding directly into the terrorist narrative, that THEY are the ones who will protect the people, that THEY are the ones who should be supported by providing money, or foot soldiers, or whatever.

That's my point. Keep doing what we are doing, and we are going to keep seeing Londons and Parises and Brussels over and over. Let's not get surprised and outraged when it happens.

And that's the point of this whole thing really, round and round it goes. The more we see Brussels or London type attacks the more the hearts and minds of the west are against Muslims. There is a very real possibility that we get to the point in the west of straight up mass deportation based on a religion. You might think that sounds crazy but I think you underestimate the hate that is building in not just America but Europe as well towards Muslims in general. It's become all about revenge for both sides really.

[Scrumhalf]

You know, the average civilian in Yemen could say the exact same thing about Western Christians after that drone strike kills his wife and kids.

[Bouncer]

You know, the average civilian in Yemen could say the exact same thing about Western Christians after that drone strike kills his wife and kids.

scrum, thats exactly my point. i don't blame that guy in Yemen for hating the west. in fact i understand it completely. but you can't blame western civilians for hating extreme Islam even if it's our government that started it. it's much more personal than that. civilians take it as a personal attack on their people. its not civilians destroying the middle east, its governments. there is a disconnect there in peoples minds.

its hate and revenge on both sides and in the real world i don't see there ever being an understanding or a peace. they see a missile attack and they hate us. we see a suicide bomber or shooter and we hate them. its part of who we are unfortunately.

[Scrumhalf]

My point is that both of the hates are misguided. We need to be better than that.

It is the nut in the ME that straps on a suicide vest and goes into a cafe in Paris. And it is a nut who shoots an Indian engineer because he looks Iranian or sets a mosque on fire. It is important on both sides to not let the crazies drive policy.

[Bouncer]

My point is that both of the hates are misguided. We need to be better than that.

I understand. But unfortunately that's not the real world especially as of late. Let's be honest, most people don't think like me or you. The average person in the world is pretty ignorant actually. Hell the man running our country probably has a below average IQ.

This whole thing has gotten so deep and filled with so much hate that I just can't see anything ever changing unfortunately.

[ROCKETW19]

lots of good points I 100% agree with Scrum that its our "greedy" government thats caused this whole shit storm. we go over there and rape their only source of income and act like we are doing good.
I dont like the fact the terrorist hide in public places like churches ect and the people dont stand up to that I almost feel like well your hiding him by not kicking him out sorry if the bomb lands on you. kinda shitty of me yes but that is the way I feel. example the movie lone survivor that village was having no part of the terrorist they should all have balls like that if your not with us your against us.

I also agree with B no fucking way will anything stop if we pulled out right now. same shit would go on forever it is what it is now. until we shut them down on our soil it will not stop. once there is enough radicals they will force their agenda on everyone typical bully shit.

I do wish we would leave I owe way to much in taxes this year and I already paid way way to fucking much. had to throw that rant in at the end fuck these taxes we should all pay the same % to bad if you have a shit job get more motivation and work harder. I am upper middle class income taxed right into lower class. (rant over)lol

[Mr I]

Germany showing decency

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcbreaki...72434247876610

[Mr I]

I now conclude that islamophobia is logical. It has always sought to convert or demonise.

We live in a world where truth is considered hate, by those who hate the truth.

[Mr I]

The fight back has begun with new MI5 tactics https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...23006854503882

[Bouncer]

This further proves my point. This guy wasn't born thousands of miles away and he didn't attack because he's "protecting his homeland in the only way he knows how"... This guy was 52 years old and born and raised in England. He simply converted and radicalized because he's lost in life and it seemed like something that could give him reason to exist...

England has let so many of these people into the country that they've created an environment where people can be trained and radicalized right in Britain itself.

"Born Adrian Russell Ajao in Kent to the southeast of London on Christmas Day in 1964, he moved though several addresses in England, although he was known to have lived recently in Birmingham in central England."

London attacker Khalid Masood was a 52-year-old criminal with militant links | Reuters

[Mr I]

^ agree

The next liberal comment to that will be: how did we let him down that he felt so disenfranchised!

Fuck that

[Mr I]

One thing is for sure.

This home grown idiot has now given the 12 nation governments just reason to bring all hell.

And so it shall be...

[Scrumhalf]

I am frankly much more worried about the neo Nazis and sovereign citizen extremists out here.

[Bouncer]

you seem unable to flat out condemn Muslim extremist without a "BUT"...

like i said yesterday. you are borderline apologetic for them.

now you're trying to take the focus off by bringing up neo nazis. fuck it, lets talk about the kkk, black panthers, and the church of Scientology while we're at it...

[Scrumhalf]

If you think the far right in the US is not a serious problem, you are sadly misinformed. It is a far bigger problem than the Muslim bogeyman that feeds into all our xenophobic and racist urges.