Please Correct My Bulking Diet

[BOHICA]

think my diet needs some improvement, but from how I set it up I don't see anything. (Very uneducated about nutrition) I am trying for a clean bulk, but still think I need more carbs throughout my day. An example of my diet is below.

(Some substitutions might be made but each meal will go along these PCF guidelines)

Morning: Bowl of Oatmeal and Weight Gainer Shake. Protein: 69, Carbs: 64, Fats: 15

Between Class Meal: Can of Tuna with ¾ Cup of Oats. Protein: 40, Carbs: 40, Fats: 5

Pre-workout Shake with Water: (Just a couple scoops weight gainer and scoop ON protein) Protein: 31, Carbs: 50, Fats: 2

During Workout: 12ounces Gatorade

Post Workout Shake with Water: (Just a couple more scoops weight gainer and scoop ON protein)Protein: 62, Carbs: 90, Fats: 5

Dinner: Chicken Breast, Brown Rice, Spinach Salad: Protein: 50, Carbs: 70, Fats: 10

Night Meal: Can of Tuna with Triscuits and Low-Fat Mozzarella: Protein: 49, Carbs: 57, Fats: 18

Bedtime: 2 Scoops Muscle Milk, 1 Cup Yogurt, 1/2 Cup Oates 3 Eggs. Protein: 49, Carbs: 58 ,Fats: 21

Daily Totals (Average): Protein: 350, Carbs: 429, Fats: 76

Also what should I be dosing and having for my pre and post-workout shakes?

[cgandenb1]

A couple of things I'd consider doing:

1) If you're not gaining enough muscle with this diet I'd eat more fat throughout the day. You seem to be getting plenty of carbs in comparison to your protein and fat intake. Fats are easy to add to your diet if you get EFA's.

2) Keep your bedtime meal carb free or as low carb as possible. Carbs eaten at this time of day are only going to be stored as fat.

[BENCH355ANIMAL]

Courtesy of my boys over at Bulknutrition Forums:

Clean Bulking 101
By Dave876




Since I have had so many requests in the last few weeks to help people out with a "clean bulking diet" I figured I would write alittle something up so this could be easily understood, and so the user can make his own diet up using my protocols. Fist let me state that I follow John Berardi’s methods of Nutrient timing so the way it works is this:

A.) meals will consist of Protein/Carbs(P+C), or Protein/Fats(P+F). Therefor while eating a P+C meal you will try to eat no more then 10-15g of fat at that time. The same will go while eating a P+F(ie: no more then 10-15g of Carbs)
B.) Since this is a "clean" bulk ALL sources of food should be from, you guessed it clean food( I will provide a list later)
C.) You should aim for 7-8 meals/day.. Not only will this supply a steady level of quality food, but eating often will keep metabolism, and fat burning trucking all day.
D.) The three most important meals of the day are Breakfast, 1st Post weight training, and 2nd post weight training. These meals should NOT be neglected in anyway to be successful.

Of course while dieting in ANY sense it is a good idea to monitor your progress, and adjust calories as needed( remember we are all different so what I am listing are in fact general guidelines ). Be sure to monitor your progress on the scale, in the mirror, and with body fat tests if you have exposure to them. While either gaining or losing weight you should shoot for no more then 2 lbs. Gain or loss per week. If you are bulking and gaining more then that chances are you are gaining fat and you need to look at your diet to make adjustments. What I suggest for "baseline" numbers are these: (I will use a 160lb example)

Protein- 1.25- 1.5gram X 1 Lb. body weight = 200-240g/day
Fat- .6-.75gram X body weight = 96- 120g/day
Carb- 1.5-1.75gram X body weight = 240-280g/day

If you feel that you are gaining fat then start cutting carbs, and fats down, but never protein! I suggest for a leaner person(10%BF or lower) to start at the higher number X body weight, and work your way up or down as needed, as for a "not so lean" person start on the lower end, and adjust as needed.

A typical weight training day should look like, and I will use a 5 p.m. workout time as an example:
M1- P+C
M2- P+C
M3- P+F
M4-(pre workout) P+ light amount of carbs( ex. Smaller version of Post workout shake)
Train
M5 P+C Preferably bring this in a shaker bottle to the gym and drink a.s.a.p.
M6 -P+C approx. 1-1.5 hours later
M7 P+F
M8 P+F pre bed meal preferably slower acting protein sources ex: casein protein powder, or cottage cheese + a small amount of fat

The post workout shake should consist of:
25-40g of Whey protein powder
50-75g Dextrose powder(powder version of Gatorade will work)
5-10g of glutamine powder ( for recovery)
?g of Creatine if you are using it.

Protein sources:

Chicken breast(grilled with seasoning)
Lean Red meats(count as a P+F meal)
Lean fishes(Tuna most commonly)
Fatty fishes(salmon P+F meal)
Whole eggs(P+F meals)
Egg Whites(P+C meals)
Turkey
Low fat cottage cheese(1-2%)
Protein powder
Jerky

Carb sources:

Oatmeal(not instant)
Yams
Sweet potatoes
Brown rice
Whole grain bread/wraps
Steamed/grilled vegetables
"Healthy" Fibrous cereals ( Fiber One, granola(low sugar) Smart Start, Uncle Sams)

Fat sources:

Nuts( preferably Raw almonds, walnuts, cashews etc…)
Flax seeds/ Flax seed oil
Fish oil caps
Natural peanut butter(Don’t make it a staple fat though)
Olive Oil
Fats from animals(again not as a staple)

Tips:
-When taking in carbs try to take in a bulk of them during meals 1,PWO,and the meal after so basically make the carbs in M2 your smallest P+C meal.
-Pre-bed meal should be slow digesting protein like casein protein powder, or get used to eating 1-2% cottage cheese To make this alitte easier if you don’t like cottage cheese(trust me I used to HATE it) What I do is mix ½ Cup of cottage cheese with ½ scoop of Chocolate protein powder, and pretend it is pudding!
-Make sure you eat every 2-3 hours.
-Take your vitamins!
-Limit alcohol as it reduces Testosterone levels, and also halts the fat burning progress until ALL alcohol is burned.
-Have a cheat meal or two per week. I like to make mine over the weekend. While I actually even cheat "clean" you DO NOT have to as well. When I say that I cheat clean I mean that I will just eat my normal foods except in a larger amount, or I will go out to a restaurant and get say Chicken, Rice, and beans. I am also human, and will splurge once in a while on something that has been tempting me like PIZZA!!
-Try to take in a salad or some steamed vegetables with your P+F meals, the vitamins, and fiber are very important.
-Non- weight training days I feel that you should eat 2 P+C meals(3 if leaner) and they should be the earliest meals of the day. All of your other meals should be P+F.
I recommend either signing up at Fitday.com , or picking up a Calorie guide book so you know how many grams you are getting from particular foods.
-Keep a food log if possible for atleast a few weeks to get a feel of how close you are hitting your numbers, and to also see what is, or isn’t working for you.
If there are anymore questions feel free to ask, I hope this will allow you to make your own menu, and help you to understand when to time your meals.

Great Post, good information too.

I'd also like to add to the list, these are things I have found to work for me and a number of athletes (bodybuilders namely).

Meats:
-Lean Beef (90% or leaner, other lean cuts include: Beef tenderloin, Filet Mignon, Sirloin, Flank Steak, Round Steak, Top Round)
-Swanson's Canned Chicken Breasts
-Canadian Bacon
-Pork Tenderloin
-Ostrich
-Deer
-Ground Turkey Breats (95% or leaner)

Fish:
Tuna, Cod, Flounder, Halibut, Haddock, Orange Roughy, Salmon (canned in water or fresh, but limit to twice weekly), Red Snapper, Perch, Pollock, Scallops,
Shrimp, Whitefish and Swordfish

Starchy Carbs:
Beans (white, pinto, kidney or black),
Lima Beans, Corn, Peas, Cream of Rice, Rice Cakes (plain or salted only), Winter Squash

*note that corn and peas are veggies, but they are going to be utilized as a starch rather than a fibrous carbohydrate*

Fibrous Carbs-Great to add to any meal, veggies are extremely important!
Asparagus, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Carrots, Cauliflower,
Celery, Cucumbers, Green Beans, Kale, Lettuce(all varieties), Mushrooms, Radishes, Spinach, Squash (summer varieties only), Tomato, Water Chestnuts, Zucchini

Fats:
Natty peanut butter-stay away from this as much as possible if you want a LEAN gain; ectomorphs, you probably don't need to worry about his as much
Canola Oil
Sesame Oil
Real Butter
Heavy Cream
Safflower Oil
MRP's w/ Lipid Blends

Notes of Interest:
you can wash your cottage cheese to get most of the lactose (milk sugar) off

[Curls4dGirls]

What's the logic behind eating either protein and fat or protein and carbs?

[BOHICA]

Originally posted by BENCH355ANIMAL
Courtesy of my boys over at Bulknutrition Forums:

Clean Bulking 101
By Dave876




Since I have had so many requests in the last few weeks to help people out with a "clean bulking diet" I figured I would write alittle something up so this could be easily understood, and so the user can make his own diet up using my protocols. Fist let me state that I follow John Berardi�s methods of Nutrient timing so the way it works is this:

A.) meals will consist of Protein/Carbs(P+C), or Protein/Fats(P+F). Therefor while eating a P+C meal you will try to eat no more then 10-15g of fat at that time. The same will go while eating a P+F(ie: no more then 10-15g of Carbs)
B.) Since this is a "clean" bulk ALL sources of food should be from, you guessed it clean food( I will provide a list later)
C.) You should aim for 7-8 meals/day.. Not only will this supply a steady level of quality food, but eating often will keep metabolism, and fat burning trucking all day.
D.) The three most important meals of the day are Breakfast, 1st Post weight training, and 2nd post weight training. These meals should NOT be neglected in anyway to be successful.

Of course while dieting in ANY sense it is a good idea to monitor your progress, and adjust calories as needed( remember we are all different so what I am listing are in fact general guidelines ). Be sure to monitor your progress on the scale, in the mirror, and with body fat tests if you have exposure to them. While either gaining or losing weight you should shoot for no more then 2 lbs. Gain or loss per week. If you are bulking and gaining more then that chances are you are gaining fat and you need to look at your diet to make adjustments. What I suggest for "baseline" numbers are these: (I will use a 160lb example)

Protein- 1.25- 1.5gram X 1 Lb. body weight = 200-240g/day
Fat- .6-.75gram X body weight = 96- 120g/day
Carb- 1.5-1.75gram X body weight = 240-280g/day

If you feel that you are gaining fat then start cutting carbs, and fats down, but never protein! I suggest for a leaner person(10%BF or lower) to start at the higher number X body weight, and work your way up or down as needed, as for a "not so lean" person start on the lower end, and adjust as needed.

A typical weight training day should look like, and I will use a 5 p.m. workout time as an example:
M1- P+C
M2- P+C
M3- P+F
M4-(pre workout) P+ light amount of carbs( ex. Smaller version of Post workout shake)
Train
M5 P+C Preferably bring this in a shaker bottle to the gym and drink a.s.a.p.
M6 -P+C approx. 1-1.5 hours later
M7 P+F
M8 P+F pre bed meal preferably slower acting protein sources ex: casein protein powder, or cottage cheese + a small amount of fat

The post workout shake should consist of:
25-40g of Whey protein powder
50-75g Dextrose powder(powder version of Gatorade will work)
5-10g of glutamine powder ( for recovery)
?g of Creatine if you are using it.

Protein sources:

Chicken breast(grilled with seasoning)
Lean Red meats(count as a P+F meal)
Lean fishes(Tuna most commonly)
Fatty fishes(salmon P+F meal)
Whole eggs(P+F meals)
Egg Whites(P+C meals)
Turkey
Low fat cottage cheese(1-2%)
Protein powder
Jerky

Carb sources:

Oatmeal(not instant)
Yams
Sweet potatoes
Brown rice
Whole grain bread/wraps
Steamed/grilled vegetables
"Healthy" Fibrous cereals ( Fiber One, granola(low sugar) Smart Start, Uncle Sams)

Fat sources:

Nuts( preferably Raw almonds, walnuts, cashews etc�)
Flax seeds/ Flax seed oil
Fish oil caps
Natural peanut butter(Don�t make it a staple fat though)
Olive Oil
Fats from animals(again not as a staple)

Tips:
-When taking in carbs try to take in a bulk of them during meals 1,PWO,and the meal after so basically make the carbs in M2 your smallest P+C meal.
-Pre-bed meal should be slow digesting protein like casein protein powder, or get used to eating 1-2% cottage cheese To make this alitte easier if you don�t like cottage cheese(trust me I used to HATE it) What I do is mix � Cup of cottage cheese with � scoop of Chocolate protein powder, and pretend it is pudding!
-Make sure you eat every 2-3 hours.
-Take your vitamins!
-Limit alcohol as it reduces Testosterone levels, and also halts the fat burning progress until ALL alcohol is burned.
-Have a cheat meal or two per week. I like to make mine over the weekend. While I actually even cheat "clean" you DO NOT have to as well. When I say that I cheat clean I mean that I will just eat my normal foods except in a larger amount, or I will go out to a restaurant and get say Chicken, Rice, and beans. I am also human, and will splurge once in a while on something that has been tempting me like PIZZA!!
-Try to take in a salad or some steamed vegetables with your P+F meals, the vitamins, and fiber are very important.
-Non- weight training days I feel that you should eat 2 P+C meals(3 if leaner) and they should be the earliest meals of the day. All of your other meals should be P+F.
I recommend either signing up at Fitday.com , or picking up a Calorie guide book so you know how many grams you are getting from particular foods.
-Keep a food log if possible for atleast a few weeks to get a feel of how close you are hitting your numbers, and to also see what is, or isn�t working for you.
If there are anymore questions feel free to ask, I hope this will allow you to make your own menu, and help you to understand when to time your meals.

Great Post, good information too.

I'd also like to add to the list, these are things I have found to work for me and a number of athletes (bodybuilders namely).

Meats:
-Lean Beef (90% or leaner, other lean cuts include: Beef tenderloin, Filet Mignon, Sirloin, Flank Steak, Round Steak, Top Round)
-Swanson's Canned Chicken Breasts
-Canadian Bacon
-Pork Tenderloin
-Ostrich
-Deer
-Ground Turkey Breats (95% or leaner)

Fish:
Tuna, Cod, Flounder, Halibut, Haddock, Orange Roughy, Salmon (canned in water or fresh, but limit to twice weekly), Red Snapper, Perch, Pollock, Scallops,
Shrimp, Whitefish and Swordfish

Starchy Carbs:
Beans (white, pinto, kidney or black),
Lima Beans, Corn, Peas, Cream of Rice, Rice Cakes (plain or salted only), Winter Squash

*note that corn and peas are veggies, but they are going to be utilized as a starch rather than a fibrous carbohydrate*

Fibrous Carbs-Great to add to any meal, veggies are extremely important!
Asparagus, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Carrots, Cauliflower,
Celery, Cucumbers, Green Beans, Kale, Lettuce(all varieties), Mushrooms, Radishes, Spinach, Squash (summer varieties only), Tomato, Water Chestnuts, Zucchini

Fats:
Natty peanut butter-stay away from this as much as possible if you want a LEAN gain; ectomorphs, you probably don't need to worry about his as much
Canola Oil
Sesame Oil
Real Butter
Heavy Cream
Safflower Oil
MRP's w/ Lipid Blends

Notes of Interest:
you can wash your cottage cheese to get most of the lactose (milk sugar) off

Thanks Bench, but I already tried this diet out a couple months ago, ended up coming in leaner and losing 8 or so pounds. LOL.. not dissing it, I gave it to some other friends to try, and they put on wonderful results from it quick too.

[YellowJacket]

That article is bunk. Not eating fats and carbs in the same meal is a wives tail, inaccurate information.

[BOHICA]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
That article is bunk. Not eating fats and carbs in the same meal is a wives tail, inaccurate information.

Damn it then YJ gimmie some help then!!! :D

[YellowJacket]

Re: Please Correct My Bulking Diet

Originally posted by BOHICA
think my diet needs some improvement, but from how I set it up I don't see anything. (Very uneducated about nutrition) I am trying for a clean bulk, but still think I need more carbs throughout my day. An example of my diet is below.

Nutrition is far and away the most difficult aspect of nutrition to understand, you are not alone in being uneducated, in fact, Id venture to say when compared to the average Joe blow, youre much more educated on nutrition.

Morning: Bowl of Oatmeal and Weight Gainer Shake. Protein: 69, Carbs: 64, Fats: 15

Try to get whole foods here. My breakfast is:

1 cup oats, 6 eggs, and 1/2 protein shake. I vary it (gets stale sometimes) and have lean turkey, etc. but for the most part, I always have eggs. This meal is very important. Commercial weight gainers are a joke, theyre nothing but maltodextrin, which is going to add more fat than lean mass. Make your own "weight gainer"/ meal replacement shake:

15oz whole milk
1/3 cup oats
2 tblspoons natty peanut butter
2 scoops protein powder
1 tblspoon fish oil (or flax)

Between Class Meal: Can of Tuna with ¾ Cup of Oats. Protein: 40, Carbs: 40, Fats: 5

Good snack, I may add some veggies here, like carrot sticks or a spinach salad.

Pre-workout Shake with Water: (Just a couple scoops weight gainer and scoop ON protein) Protein: 31, Carbs: 50, Fats: 2

Not bad, not too fond of the weight gainer still but. Have some vitamin C powder here, it helps in cortisol suppression, but then again, so does the insulin response youll get from the sugar in your shake.

During Workout: 12ounces Gatorade

Drop some amino acid powder in this or protein powder and you're set.

Post Workout Shake with Water: (Just a couple more scoops weight gainer and scoop ON protein)Protein: 62, Carbs: 90, Fats: 5

Ill accept it.

Dinner: Chicken Breast, Brown Rice, Spinach Salad: Protein: 50, Carbs: 70, Fats: 10

Good... only suggestion is adding more fat, even if its in the form of a fish oil or flax oil supplement.

Night Meal: Can of Tuna with Triscuits and Low-Fat Mozzarella: Protein: 49, Carbs: 57, Fats: 18

Like cottage cheese? Add it here. Also, youre not getting nearly enough vegetables, theyre more than essential. Add some here and maybe as a snack elsewhere.

Bedtime: 2 Scoops Muscle Milk, 1 Cup Yogurt, 1/2 Cup Oates 3 Eggs. Protein: 49, Carbs: 58 ,Fats: 21

For some reason, I like this. If you ever get bored, add peanut butter, works wonders for bulking.

Daily Totals (Average): Protein: 350, Carbs: 429, Fats: 76

This is roughly 3800 calories. Figure your basal metabolic rate and see what your chances are gaining weight with this. 2 things really, more healthy fats and more vegetables.

[BENCH355ANIMAL]

Thanks Bench, but I already tried this diet out a couple months ago, ended up coming in leaner and losing 8 or so pounds. LOL.. not dissing it, I gave it to some other friends to try, and they put on wonderful results from it quick too.

Ever think it was fat burned, LBM maintained??:idea:

That article is bunk. Not eating fats and carbs in the same meal is a wives tail, inaccurate information.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I know when I follow this type of eating schedule.....I am more lean, and defined.

You've got issues YJ:nutkick:

I've noticed in every thread I've seen you in.......you don't agree with anyone or think anyone else has any sense. I think you're a dumbass, who comes in here....shoots everyones elses opinions down to make himself feel better about being a 160 lb douchebag!:madfu:

[BBAddict]

Originally posted by BENCH355ANIMAL


You've got issues YJ:nutkick:

I've noticed in every thread I've seen you in.......you don't agree with anyone or think anyone else has any sense. I think you're a dumbass, who comes in here....shoots everyones elses opinions down to make himself feel better about being a 160 lb douchebag!:madfu:

I agree that he is quick to shoot down somebody elses ideas or opinions without offering the answer, which isn't cool. But it's also cool that he often, like he just did in this thread, will offer detailed advice. More importantly he usually gives good reasoning behind most the things that he states. Opinions are one thing but he often offers science behind his opinion.

[Curls4dGirls]

Originally posted by BENCH355ANIMAL
Ever think it was fat burned, LBM maintained??:idea:




I'm not sure about everyone else, but I know when I follow this type of eating schedule.....I am more lean, and defined.

You've got issues YJ:nutkick:

I've noticed in every thread I've seen you in.......you don't agree with anyone or think anyone else has any sense. I think you're a dumbass, who comes in here....shoots everyones elses opinions down to make himself feel better about being a 160 lb douchebag!:madfu:

Bro - YJ is one of the most knowledgeable guys around. AND he's one of the few guys who'll back up his claims with RESEARCH AND DATA.

Don't bash the guy for trying to inform people. I asked the question,"what's the logic behind P+C and P+F?" and he replied.


BOHICA - I like YJs suggestions ... try to get in more whole foods instead of protein powder and weight gainers.

Also, be careful when using the BMR ... I had to add a significant amount of calories in order to gain mass.

[BENCH355ANIMAL]

He didn't explain why it was a "wives tail" or back it up with any research data. It has been proven from personal experience from myself and others that this method works to gain LBM, and mimimize fat gain while bulking. If it didn't work, then I wouldn't have been able to gain 42 lbs. and lose 1.5 % bodyfat on my current cycle. I've argued with YJ previousley on our beliefs-----he prefers to read books, and I like to try things out to see if they do in fact work. We will never agree on anything.

Maybe I should get my subtitle changed to "YJ's Controversial Opponent"

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by BENCH355ANIMAL


You've got issues YJ:nutkick:

Yes, I have issues with newbies giving advice and spamming articles that are inaccurate, do you read anything you type?

I've noticed in every thread I've seen you in.......you don't agree with anyone or think anyone else has any sense. I think you're a dumbass, who comes in here....shoots everyones elses opinions down to make himself feel better about being a 160 lb douchebag!:madfu:

I agree with a lot on these boards, however, it seems you give a lot of false information, and that I do not agree with. Your opinion of me is comical, as you obviously dont know your ass from a hole in the ground. You're obviously a child.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by BBAddict
I agree that he is quick to shoot down somebody elses ideas or opinions without offering the answer, which isn't cool. But it's also cool that he often, like he just did in this thread, will offer detailed advice. More importantly he usually gives good reasoning behind most the things that he states. Opinions are one thing but he often offers science behind his opinion.

Better shoot them down quick, before people read the shit, right?

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by BENCH355ANIMAL
He didn't explain why it was a "wives tail" or back it up with any research data. It has been proven from personal experience from myself and others that this method works to gain LBM, and mimimize fat gain while bulking. If it didn't work, then I wouldn't have been able to gain 42 lbs. and lose 1.5 % bodyfat on my current cycle. I've argued with YJ previousley on our beliefs-----he prefers to read books, and I like to try things out to see if they do in fact work. We will never agree on anything.

Here's why its a wives tail, God forbid you do some searching for yourself:

a post by mfornero
What a lot of the food combining jedi seem to be missing is that fact that nutrient storage/utilization is not instantaneous.

When you consume a meal, fat does not instantly appear in your bloodstream, nor do carbs-- everything must be digested. Bear in mind also that varying amounts of fiber/fat/protein will greatly affect digestion time, and fat goes through a different pathway to reach the bloodstream than protein/carbs.

So if you were to eat oatmeal with peanut butter and MPI, for example, the fats in the peanut butter reaching the bloodstream would not necessarily coincide with the insulin release due to the protein/carbs.

Throughout the course of the day, fat is always being stored and released, and the ratio of carb:fat oxidation is never really absolute (especially on a mixed diet) So with only P+C/P+F, you swing the ratio in one direction for part of the day, the other for the rest of the day. With P+C+F, the ratio remains fairly constant throughout the day. But for the same given daily macronutrient breakdown, the total amounts oxidised are going to pretty much be the same.

The only real exception would be the workout time period, where you want to avoid fats due to the slowing of gastric emptying.

Maybe I should get my subtitle changed to "YJ's Controversial Opponent"

No, it should read "Complete fucking tool"