PWO drink when cutting

[Mr I]

So we all know the usual protocol of getting some simple sugars or waxy maize in with some form of isolate, the logic being spike insulin levels and shuttle the amino's into the muscle, or so the theory goes, by whoever started it.

George farah in a recent interview with Kai in Ireland advocates taking in oly either hydrolysed whey or microlysed whey isolate and NO carbs of any sort immediately PWO, insisting that by taking in carbs you would be blunting the hiigh growth hormone levels induced naturally by the body with your weightlifting workout immediately before.

Ergo the logic is that you will burn more fat(due to the increased GH) by not taking any carbs in immediately PWO, he says you can then eat normally taking in soome carbs at least half hour or an hour later.

He also as an aside advocates making the same hydrolysed whey or microlysed whey you first food of the day, again without any carbs so eat your oats half hour later.

Can those with bodybuilding competition experienced and advanced nutrition knowledge please chime in with your thoughts/experiences?

Thanks

See at the 4.00 minute mark the said interview and Georges thoughts on PWO
George Farah & Kai Greene seminar ireland 2012 Full HD - YouTube

[Mr I]

One logic;

The idea for pwo carbs comes from studies on endurance athletes who maintain higher performance levels when glycogen loading... studies on weight training individuals consistently show no advantage though, not for hypertrophy or performance. PWO carbs can make you feel better quicker though if very tired byt supplying the liver with a quick boost in energy, but that's a bout the only advantage.

In respect of pwo carbs blunting GH though, i wouldn't worry - the temporary increases in hormones like GH and test that follow exercise are an anitcatabolic mechanism to stop excess muscle loss until you are fed - the anabolic effect of food is much greater than those hormones, so even though eating carbs and protein pwo reduces the elevations in those hormone temporarily (for about 2 hours) it doesn't matter because you are doing something much more anabolic by eating/drinking a shake instead... is what happens with your hormones over a 24 hour level that matters, pwo is not actually important for hormones within a normal human range.

Study showing no anabolic effect from the short term pwo elevations of anabolic hormones - Elevations in ostensibly anabolic hormones with resistance exercise enhance neither training-induced muscle hypertrophy nor strength of the elbow flexors

[Mr I]

Specifically for the purpose of cutting fat it may be beneficial to drop the carbs, but that I would say is more dependent upon what your own insulin sensitivity is like - studies looking at general weight loss (not specifically exercise induced fat burning) show that people with high insulin sensitivity actually cut best when diet is higher in carbs than on low carb diets... however people who have impaired insulin sensitivity cut better when carbs are low.

http://graemethomasonline.com/low-ca...le-the-debate/

As to whether this effect is different for exercise, it may be, but to my own understanding I suspect it isn't (although of course I can't claim authoritive knowledge).

Certainly for me (I know I have good insulin sensitivity as I've had basal insulin levels and fasting glucose response checked a few times) I always get on better with moderate carb cutting than low carb cutting - but I know that for some others (who's insulin sensitivity I don't know but suspect is impaired) this is definitely not the same experience.

Basically you have to try both approaches to get an idea of what will work for you - there is not an approach that is optimum for everyone IMO.

[TC63]

thanks mr i good stuff

[casby]

Cool Thanks. This has been on my mind a lot recently. I've been trying to find some concrete evidence on the benefits of carbs PWO, but just find a bunch of theory and mainstream info which I don't buy into anymore. I've been having a PWO shake with only protein for a while now.

[Mr I]

Cool Thanks. This has been on my mind a lot recently. I've been trying to find some concrete evidence on the benefits of carbs PWO, but just find a bunch of theory and mainstream info which I don't buy into anymore. I've been having a PWO shake with only protein for a while now.

You have to wonder whether alot of this is cooked up by the supplement industry

[casby]

You have to wonder whether alot of this is cooked up by the supplement industry

Exactly. Like I said, I don't buy into all the "must be done this way"
Bullshit. Who's to say what's right or wrong.

[Mr I]

George Farah's diet, one example;

I'm a farah client, been the best investment I made. 8 weeks out from the Emerald cup here's my diet..

Diet:
M1. 14 egg whites, 1.5 cup oatmeal.

M2. 6 oz. chicken breast, 1 cups white rice (50 grams dry before you cook), 1 cup broccoli.

M3. 6 oz. Cod or haddock fish, 2 cups white rice (100 grams dry before you cook).

M4. 7 oz. chicken, 6 oz. sweet potato, 1 cup broccoli

M5. 7 oz. Cod and haddock fish, 6 oz. sweet potato, salad with balsamic vinegar and lemon juice.

M6. 60 grams hydro whey protein with water only.
Post workout, 60 grams hydro whey protein with water only then 25 minutes later drink 20 oz. Gatorade.

Farah def knows his shit, so many little things he's done that really make the difference, he's always here for me, the diet has changed no doubt, I've been working with him for 9 weeks now had me on over 5k cals when we started and just takes them a little lower every week.. it def various on the person as my friend hired him the same time as me and our shit is wayyyy different..

Here is my weight loss per week


Weight: "morning"
week 18 283.4
week 17 275.4
week 16 273.6
week 15 272.4
week 14 270.0
week 13 268.2
week 12 265.9
week 11 262.9
week 10 258.9
week 9 257.4
week 8 256.0


Few things on farah's and his diet:

1. High carbs, mod protein, low fats

2. He doesn't like changing the diet a lot (small changes)

3. All this stuff I read about minimum dose this, minimum dose that.. That's BS, seems like he likes to you multiple compounds at lower doses tho..

4 use DNP and he will terminate your ass

5. He believes the diet should do the fat loss not the cardio. "He's not big on lots of cardio basically.. "

[BEAST]

Here is a good info about it all.

It's a PDF file.


http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

[Scrumhalf]

Alan Aragon is the man. You can pretty much take anything he says to the bank.

[Bouncer]

I cut out a post workout shake with quick carbs like 7 months ago and replaced it with chicken and rice. noticed no difference, if anything i look better.

so many things look great on paper but dont really play out in real life.

[Mr I]

I still believe pwo isolate

[auri]

I'm not changing anything with my diet as long as I'm seeing results. Plus I just like my pwo drink.

[Mr I]

I'm not changing anything with my diet as long as I'm seeing results. Plus I just like my pwo drink.

which comprises?

[StanG]

I cut out a post workout shake with quick carbs like 7 months ago and replaced it with chicken and rice. noticed no difference, if anything i look better.

so many things look great on paper but dont really play out in real life.

So true. I think that so many things are overstated or just plain bs. More and more I tend to lean towards the Alan Argon view of this topic. Anabolic windows and insulin spikes at certain times blah blah blah...