Advice on 2nd cycle

[figure_champ]

I just finished competing at Nationals and things went well overall. I was using Anavar for approximately 10 weeks total and had some great results with minimal sides. I am deciding on my next competition and hoping for some advice on a 2nd cycle. I have read that Winny tends to make you bloated but am wondering more about Primo and Dbol. Can you offer up your advice and suggestions?

I am 5'7 and competed at 118 which was a bit low. I would like to come in closer to 125.

My diet was posted previously and I will be doing a quick bulking diet for the next 4 weeks.

[redsquirrel]

Re: Advice on 2nd cycle

Originally posted by figure_champ
I just finished competing at Nationals and things went well overall. I was using Anavar for approximately 10 weeks total and had some great results with minimal sides. I am deciding on my next competition and hoping for some advice on a 2nd cycle. I have read that Winny tends to make you bloated but am wondering more about Primo and Dbol. Can you offer up your advice and suggestions?

I am 5'7 and competed at 118 which was a bit low. I would like to come in closer to 125.

My diet was posted previously and I will be doing a quick bulking diet for the next 4 weeks.

Several things I have to comment:

1) I wouldn't do Dbol with the Primo. In fact, I wouldn't do Dbol at all. You're not a BBer, therefore, IMHO, no need for it. You could have some serious sides... I would pair it with Anavar or Winstrol tabs. The tabs have less chance of as much bloat than the injects. However, keep in mind YOU WILL have somem uch more noticeable sides even just doing the Primo alone. It's also possible you'll hold a fair amount of water on Primo as well. That being said, I think the Primo/Var combo is your best bet. In fact, it's my favorite and most effective combo...especially w/ a little GH.

2) I also wouldn't run the Primo for just 4 weeks. I say minumum 6 weeks, maximum 8 weeks. The ester is much longer with Primo so it will take awhile before you start to notice anything, and by the time you start seeing some gains, it would be time to stop.

If you don't have an upcoming compeition who cares about the bloat?

[figure_champ]

Thanks Red. I actually do have a competition coming up and it's basically 10 weeks away. Is the Primo/Var combo still the best bet or could you recommend something else?

I used Nolva for 10 days before Nationals - would that be of benefit here as well?

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by figure_champ
Thanks Red. I actually do have a competition coming up and it's basically 10 weeks away. Is the Primo/Var combo still the best bet or could you recommend something else?

I used Nolva for 10 days before Nationals - would that be of benefit here as well?

In all honesty, you really need to decide if you want to bulk or compete. You should allot a good 6 months to make some decent gains. A lot of female competitors don't think about that. the longer you put yourself through a diet, the higher the chances you have of losing more muscle.

You could see some really decent gains if you devote half a year to putting on mass. However, if you did a 6-8 week cycle right now and ate your face off, you should be able to put on a good 3-4 lbs of lean mass. Other than the Var/Primo combo, you could do maybe some EQ for 6-8 weeks, by itself. You would have about the same water retention as Primo. Legit Eq is a lot harder to come by than legit Primo, so that could be a viable option.

As for the Nolva, I'm not sure what your question is. Nolvadex will not help you gain muscle. Women take Proviron, (which has a some anabolic properties, but not enough to see gains) and Nolvadex to shut down their estrogen in order to lose BF.

[figure_champ]

Red - if I had 10mg tabs of Anavar and 50mg tabs of Proviron (both British Dragon) - what would you recommend for dosage for a 6 to 8 week cycle? I was just wondering if the Nolva would be helpful near the end and closer to the show to help me lose BF.

I used Aldactone as well to shed water but have heard that sometimes it makes you look too flat. Would you agree??

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by figure_champ
Red - if I had 10mg tabs of Anavar and 50mg tabs of Proviron (both British Dragon) - what would you recommend for dosage for a 6 to 8 week cycle? I was just wondering if the Nolva would be helpful near the end and closer to the show to help me lose BF.

I used Aldactone as well to shed water but have heard that sometimes it makes you look too flat. Would you agree??

For a 6- 8 week cycle on the Var: Week 1, 5mg. Weeks 2 & 3- 10mgs, Weeks 4 & 5- 15 mgs, Week 6, 10 mgs, Week 7, 5mgs.

Start the Nolvadex 4 weeks out dosing it as you did before. Start the Proviron 2 weeks after that. Start the dosing at 25mgs for the first 5 days, and 50 for the days leading up to the show. Please remember to taper off properly, as the rebound from this combo can wreak serious havoc. IMHO, I think you should probably do one or the other. You're not a BBer, so you don't need to get your BF that low.

As for the Aldactone, I don't agree with the flatness. I think it's a really effective diuretic. I think it's too mild to cause you to look flat. If you felt you looked flat, is it possible your sodium/water/carb manipulation didn't work as well as it should have?? IMHO, I really think stronger diuretics like Diazide and Lasix run much higher risk of flatening out. Why do you think you looked flat?

[figure_champ]

Sorry Red - I typed Proviron but meant to say Primo! It was a long day yesterday. ;) Could recommend the dosage on 50mg tabs of Primo along with the Var.

I don't think that I looked flat from the Aldactone - was just a comment I received from a BBer and his opinion on it. I have always used it for contest prep so had never considered anything else until his comment.

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by figure_champ
Sorry Red - I typed Proviron but meant to say Primo! It was a long day yesterday. ;) Could recommend the dosage on 50mg tabs of Primo along with the Var.

I don't think that I looked flat from the Aldactone - was just a comment I received from a BBer and his opinion on it. I have always used it for contest prep so had never considered anything else until his comment.

1) Primo tabs are faked just as much as the amps.

2) Primo tabs are just as expensive as the amps, AND you have to take a lot of them for them to be effective because the stomach acids break half of it down. Whereas with the amps you obviously don't have that problem.

3) Primo tabs are much harder on your liver.

IMHO, I think you should maybe do a Winny/Var stack or a EQ with or without Var.

As for the Aldactone, I think aldactone is one of the best diuretics available because IMO, it really helps avoid flattening out.

Now that you mention it, so you do think you looked flat??? Do you think you manipulated everything correctly?

[figure_champ]

Thanks Red - this helps me alot! I'm not crazy about Primo and think I will try the Winny/Var stack first.

I agree with you on Aldactone. I don't believe that I looked flat at all. My condition was exactly what I wanted for the competition. Unfortunately I was amongst the smaller sized girls for my class but I am happy with how I looked, especially for my first time at Nationals.

[figure_champ]

Red-one additional question on dosage. I have 50mg Winny tabs and 10mg Var tabs - should I be splitting and take 1/2 of each once per day? Is there a preferable time to take them?

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by figure_champ
Red-one additional question on dosage. I have 50mg Winny tabs and 10mg Var tabs - should I be splitting and take 1/2 of each once per day? Is there a preferable time to take them?

Yes. Great question. Split your doses up throughout the day. Half life of both is about 8hrs. So, I would say take 1/2 your dose in the AM, and the other 1/2 about an hour before you workout. If you're a under the 8 hours that's not an issue.

One more thing- who makes the 10mg Var tabs? I've just never seen anything higher than 5's.

[figure_champ]

The 10mg Var tabs are from British Dragon-Thailand.

Thanks for your help Red - I'll keep you posted on my progress as I get closer to the show.

[figure_champ]

hi Red - further to my update on training, I was wondering about your experience with winny. I knew the possible side effects and fortunately they weren't too bad. Just wondering how long they'll stick around now that I've stopped taking it - mainly breakouts on my back and the water retention. My voice already is less raspy - thank goodness!

[redsquirrel]

hi Red - further to my update on training, I was wondering about your experience with winny. I knew the possible side effects and fortunately they weren't too bad. Just wondering how long they'll stick around now that I've stopped taking it - mainly breakouts on my back and the water retention. My voice already is less raspy - thank goodness!

Although it is a water based substance, I would say a good 3 weeks, but every one is different. It will probably take your skin about 5 weeks to clear up. Back acne is really common with Winny. Your voice should go back to normal in about 3 weeks also.

I absolutely hated it, and will never touch it again. I can get much better results without the horrible sides from Primo, EQ, or Var.

[figure_champ]

Thanks Red. The Winny wasn't ideal and the water bloat isn't fun - I'll be glad when it's gone. My sides were much less with Var alone but I can't complain about the gains I have seen from the Winny/Var combo.

You mentioned Primo and EQ along with Var before - if I were to consider this as a 3rd cycle (obviously in the fall after some 'off' time) - could you lay out suggestions for dosing?

I am planning a longer break after this show to give my body some time off - I haven't seen a menstrual cycle in over 8 months! My family doc is on my case to take the pill again, more out of concern for osteroporosis than anything.