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So I am starting to feel confident my gyno is not estrogen related. I dont have any lumps or pain but my nipps are sensitive and noticably puffy. I am on 200mgs test right now for TRT and have nearly finished an entire bottle of adex. I do feel leaner and tighter on the adex but it has done 0 for the puffiness. I was hoping to get some guidance as to what I should do next. Another bottle of Adex? Liquid Prami? I know the prami is for progestin gyno and is prob what I need to be taking but I dont know anything about it like dosage or if It will even be effective with trt? Thanks as always for any advice
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What are you currently taking for estrogen? -
If your not running Tren or Deca i doubt it.Comment
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I found this on another site in doing my homework on prami. I couldnt find any standardized protocol.
Prolactin suppression using Pramipexole
For Prevention: when you are taking something that can cause prolactin issues or when you just want to lower prolactin, for the benefits of lowering prolactin.
0.125 (1/8) to 0.5mg (1/2) per day should generally be sufficient for most users. With prevention slow escalation should not be an issue
For Treatment: When you have ongoing prolactin issues, Gynecomastia flare, or are attempting to regress gynecomastia tissues (ductal, lobular and central gland mass).
0.375 up (3/8) to 1mg should generally be sufficient for most users. Most people will not need over 0.5mg. If you do, then SLOWLY escalate the dose. You still should start at 0.25mg and slowly work up. see bottom for exceptions
doses should be taken in the evening, 2-4 hours prior to bed. For the very low doses, an hour is probably fine. if it keeps you up, take it earlier. If it makes you sleepy "too soon" then take closer to bed. a good number of people will notice niether. taking with last meal of the day may be ideal for a lot of people.
Now for you people that want high end dosing benefits, which are not prolactin suppression. This is a lot more complex, and generally requires a VERY slow progression in dosing to acheive. Clinicals increased the dose by 0.125 every 3-5 days. there will typicallly be side effects for people at various point along the progression. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT YOU BE AWARE OF THESE BEFORE YOU LAUNCH INTO HIGH END DOSING.
EDIT- IMPORTANT NOTE-
for those that do not have dopaminergic sides, other than "waking up from sleep"-- which is caused by the drop in pramipexole in the plasma and the subsequent surge of dopamine release from the tissues in which they were suppressed, JUMPING the dose up more quickly will generally alleviate this. this is for those for whom interupted sleep is the primary and pretty much only side effect. this applies to treatment and high end dosing (at least until sleep interution abates).Comment
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yea i doubt its prolactin gyno bro. if your not running deca, tren, or any other progesterone based AAS its unlikely.
try the prammi. as for dose i have no idea, never used it.Comment
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Gyno is always estrogen related. If estroegn isnt elevated prolactin on its own will not cause gyno. Controlling estrogen is the key.Comment
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yea thats what the books say but anyone with real world experience knows this is not the case. you can completly remove estro and if you are sensitive to progesterone you will have issues. even if you are running 2.5mg letro per dayOriginally posted by StanG View PostComment
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Progesterone and prolactin are 2 different things. Progesterone has little to no effect on prolactin levels. Progesterone up-regulates prolactin receptors but not in breast tissue. Thus sexual sides yes - gyno - no. Estrogen in fact increases prolactin.Originally posted by THE BOUNCER View PostComment
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So explain to me why when I use test at as little as 250mgs per week with tren e at as little as 200mgs I get gyno that cannot be controled even with letro. Soon as I drop tren puffy nips go away. Yet I can run test at 500 mgs per week and have no gyno issue at all.Originally posted by StanG View PostComment
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because even with low amounts of estrogen progesterone can induce gyno issues in some. Not prolactin ..progesterone. Its pretty interesting at low or normal levels progesterone actually reduces the effects of estrogen but when progesterone levels increase greatly they agonize the effects of whatever estrogen you have present. I have to admit you situation is pretty odd in that femara (letro) usually decrease both e and progesaterone.Originally posted by THE BOUNCER View PostComment
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its not odd though. have seen it many times in other people here and on other forums.Originally posted by StanG View Post
you can almost completely remove estro from the equation with letro and people still get gyno when you throw tren into the mix.
not only that but it is a different type of gyno. estro type gyno you get a hard lump behind the nip. not the case with tren. its more of a puffy nip that gets super sensitive.
again, i know it looks good on paper to say remove estrogen and no gyno, but its just not the case, im sorry.Comment
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Thats not gyno ..its increased nipple size and sensativity due to elevated progesterone. Just like women experience during ovulation. You said yourself stop the tren it goes away..with gyno thats not the case..you have it you pretty much have it...unless you treat it quickly after its onset.Comment
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Good point. Bottom line though is I cannot use tren or even deca without bad sides. Some have no issue.Originally posted by StanG View PostComment
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any idea what the exact process is that causes issues in some while not in others?Originally posted by StanG View PostComment
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