Tren log

[ROCKETW19]

i used letro at 2.5mgs and killed all estrogen and still had puffy painful nips that felt like they were gonna drip milk. lol. did not go away until i stopped the tren.

telling you guys, thats a great theory and all but it does not work. dont care what anyone says.

same here we both have said it 5 hundred times killing estrogen did not help either of us!
I even got the no estrogen funk felt like shit dick didnt work ect.

I wanna say Rado did the same thing cuz I remember telling him his estro was gone when he told me about the way he felt.
aftre he fixed estro he was fine but it is a nasty feeling worse than nipps hurting thats for sure

[StanG]

Wait till you 2 hear this one..it goes against everything you hear. I would run nolva...and i would also manage estrogen with exemestane. Id start the nolva 2 weks pre cycle. Why ..well for 2 weeks nolva administration upregulates progesterone receptors. Thats why they say not to take it with a 19 nor. HOWEVER after 2 weeks of administration it downregulates progesterone receptors. I firmly believe you are both experiencing the effects of progesterone if you have the symptoms you say with e2 being manged. It will cause puffiness and sensitivity. The doenregulation of progesterone nolva will provide after the first 2 weeks may very well provide some relief for you both. HOWEVER you need to try to keep e2 in normal clinical range. You guys arent getting gyno...you are getting puffy nips and sensitivity - not fiberous tissue growth - thats gyno

[ROCKETW19]

Wait till you 2 hear this one..it goes against everything you hear. I would run nolva...and i would also manage estrogen with exemestane. Id start the nolva 2 weks pre cycle. Why ..well for 2 weeks nolva administration upregulates progesterone receptors. Thats why they say not to take it with a 19 nor. HOWEVER after 2 weeks of administration it downregulates progesterone receptors. I firmly believe you are both experiencing the effects of progesterone if you have the symptoms you say with e2 being manged. It will cause puffiness and sensitivity. The doenregulation of progesterone nolva will provide after the first 2 weeks may very well provide some relief for you both. HOWEVER you need to try to keep e2 in normal clinical range. You guys arent getting gyno...you are getting puffy nips and sensitivity - not fiberous tissue growth - thats gyno

I used letro
and I can agree it might not have been gyno but the symptoms were there and I did not like it and wanted it gone asap. not worth the chance to me.

[StanG]

I used letro
and I can agree it might not have been gyno but the symptoms were there and I did not like it and wanted it gone asap. not worth the chance to me.

So perhaps try my suggestion...or dont run tren. I firmly believe diff people have diff rsponses good and bad to diff compounds. Tren may not be for you.

[ROCKETW19]

So perhaps try my suggestion...or dont run tren. I firmly believe diff people have diff rsponses good and bad to diff compounds. Tren may not be for you.

I agree in the different reactions but I simply just lower my dose to under 300mgs and i am fine no need for anything.
I was just sharing my experance about estorgen and tren. I read all the studys that is why i tried it but it did not work for me the way the studys said. so with my own expermints i found that under 300mgs and no issues.

I also read all about B6 and tren,lol that was the funnest one yet
shit looks good on paper and may work for some but I perfer to test it myself

[Bouncer]

Wait till you 2 hear this one..it goes against everything you hear. I would run nolva...and i would also manage estrogen with exemestane. Id start the nolva 2 weks pre cycle. Why ..well for 2 weeks nolva administration upregulates progesterone receptors. Thats why they say not to take it with a 19 nor. HOWEVER after 2 weeks of administration it downregulates progesterone receptors. I firmly believe you are both experiencing the effects of progesterone if you have the symptoms you say with e2 being manged. It will cause puffiness and sensitivity. The doenregulation of progesterone nolva will provide after the first 2 weeks may very well provide some relief for you both. HOWEVER you need to try to keep e2 in normal clinical range. You guys arent getting gyno...you are getting puffy nips and sensitivity - not fiberous tissue growth - thats gyno

interesting. i am on nolv now (only 10mgs) to prevent estro type gyno. you are saying that at first the nolv can be a problem with progesterone but after 2 weeks is helps?

[ROCKETW19]

interesting. i am on nolv now (only 10mgs) to prevent estro type gyno. you are saying that at first the nolv can be a problem with progesterone but after 2 weeks is helps?

that is how i read it! I remember reading do not use nolva with tren but never read but after 2 weeks it is ok?
who knows i dont need nolva either so dont care,lol

[StanG]

interesting. i am on nolv now (only 10mgs) to prevent estro type gyno. you are saying that at first the nolv can be a problem with progesterone but after 2 weeks is helps?

correct. Initially it upregulates progesterone recptiors...but after 2 weeks it downregulates them from that point on- a good thing.

[Bouncer]

correct. Initially it upregulates progesterone recptiors...but after 2 weeks it downregulates them from that point on- a good thing.

if i have been on nolv for awhile i still have to go through the upregulation process once the tren starts?

i guess the good thing about tren E is that it slowly rises opposed to tren ace which just hits you. maybe less chance of problems on tren E in terms of the upregulation process?

[StanG]

if i have been on nolv for awhile i still have to go through the upregulation process once the tren starts?

i guess the good thing about tren E is that it slowly rises opposed to tren ace which just hits you. maybe less chance of problems on tren E in terms of the upregulation process?

No you wont. Many times its wise to start nolva 2 weeks pre cycle if your running it with deca or tren so it isnt a prob. If you have been taking it - you are good to go. I will be following along for sure.

[Bouncer]

stan i believe what you are saying but may i ask where the info comes from? do you have any studies or articles to back this up? not trying to argue, would actually like to read more about it.

[Bouncer]

been searching around and found this.

For some reason over the last year or so, all i have seen on this board (as I don't visit others) is how devastating it is to use Tamoxifen with 19nors. Now, before we get into this, I don't wanna hear a bunch of parroted shit from people who have no experience with it. I have used Tamoxifen personally while using deca and tren and had no issues with the supposed problems that have said to arisen in the past year or so. I have also done loads of reading on it. So lets have a healthy debate shall we? Humdiddly, feel free to use all the big words you like... as long as I understand them. lol

Now, here is what my research tells me. Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist.

In some tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the progesterone receptor would be expected, as the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where i believe there is confusion.

In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist (blocks the ER). The progesterone receptor is synthesized in response to estrogen. So when the ER is blocked (in breast tissue), the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is what happens in cancer patients and we're no different.

Therefore, Tamoxifen will help reduce gyno even when using tren or deca, not make it worse.

Now, Tamoxifen will down regulate the progesterone receptor in breast tissue. Some "guru's" state Tamoxifen will up regulate the progesterone receptor and cause or lead to gyno. By either worsening estrogenic gyno or by itself. They, therefore, assume Tamoxifen CANT be used with deca or tren, but this is false.

Now, some of you may be confused about gyno. Maybe this will help.

You can get gyno (it seems) 3 ways. First off, from estrogen. Second, from progesterone alone, or progesterone making estrogenic gyno worse. And finally, from prolactin.

Tamoxifen can be used to treat gyno from either deca or tren, whether it be from estrogen or progesterone. BUT Tamoxifen CANNOT treat prolactin induced gyno. But can treat estrogenic gyno or progestenic gyno (if that exists).

deca and tren will both elevate PRL (Prolactin) levels (although, again debatable). Therefore, for PRL related sides, such as loss of libido, gyno and lactation (although not only from PRL), Caber, Prami or Dostinex need to be used.

You see, when people use deca and tren, they tend to use Testosterone too. So if they experienced gyno, it may be from estrogen, NOT from deca and tren and again, thus being OK to use Tamoxifen.

Basically, as progesterone is synthesised in response to estrogen, if you control estrogen, you essentially reduce progesterone sides as well.

I hope that clears some confusion because you will NOT find a study stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue anywhere. I have never seen a case of gyno solely caused by PgR. It just seems impossible as the PgR is synthesized by the ER (Estrogen Receptor).

[StanG]

I dont 100% agree with all of that - but some is accurate , of course thats just my opinion.

stan i believe what you are saying but may i ask where the info comes from? do you have any studies or articles to back this up? not trying to argue, would actually like to read more about it.

Of course Bro. The bold shows the pgr expression pattern change...however the 2 sentences after it are very relevant as well.

Cancer Res. 1981 May;41(5):1984-8.
Effects of tamoxifen on estrogen and progesterone receptors in human breast cancer.
Waseda N, Kato Y, Imura H, Kurata M.
Abstract

Twenty patients with primary breast cancer were treated with tamoxifen (10 mg p.o. twice a day) for 1 to 4 weeks. Before and after the tamoxifen administration, tumor specimens were obtained and assayed for estrogen receptors and progesterone receptors (PGR). Total cytosol estrogen receptor (ERC) and occupied nuclear estrogen receptor (ERN) were measured by hydroxylapatite assay, and unoccupied PGR was measured by the dextran-coated charcoal assay. ERC, ERN, and PGR were detectable in 11, 8, and 6 tumors, respectively, before tamoxifen administration. After tamoxifen treatment, ERC decreased in 10 of 11 ERC-positive tumors. Occupied ERN increased in three of five ERN-positive tumors treated with tamoxifen for a short period (1 to 2 weeks), but they decreased in all of three ERN-positive tumors after longer administration (3 to 4 weeks). PGR increased in three of five ERN-positive tumors after short-term tamoxifen treatment, but they decreased in all of three tumors treated by the drug for a longer period. Increased PGR responses were accompanied by an increase of ERN in two of three ERN-positive tumors. These results suggest that tamoxifen interacts with the estrogen receptor system in human breast cancer tissue and may be estrogenic during short treatment, while longer treatment results in an antiestrogenic response.

PMID:
7214366
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Bouncer]

cool, will update when i notice any changes.

[Bouncer]

DAY 7

7 days in and I am already feeling the tren. Not sure how this could be with the E ester but trust me, I can feel it. Sex drive did a sudden jump well above how i feel on just test. I want it all day long and when i do it takes like an hour at minimum to bust one out. :rofl: Shit stay hard as a rock but its like the signal to cum just takes forever. Fun and not so fun at the same time. i remember this happening last time i was on tren.

other then that no sides but again its only 7 days in.