Long Low-Moderate Dose cycles

[Chadd77]

Nah that doesn't count cuz you're on GH [emoji849]


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What doesn't count?

[Chadd77]

Yessir. High Test is great for mass. It gets you big quick. But it also makes you retain a lot of water which is where most of its weight gain comes from. I don't want mass. Mass is fat/water/muscle. I want just muscle gain, and for that to happen it has to be over long periods of time. Fat and water gain is easy to attain in such a short amount of time. Definitely quality over quantity.


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My guess is that your diet is not dialed in either. Only reason your gaining fat is from your diet. Higher dosage of test is not going to make you put on more fat. High or low dosage you can maintain a lean look by controlling the food that goes into your body. I get you will retain more water with a higher dosage of test but no reason you can have striations and cuts on that kind of dosage either.

[Androman]

My guess is that your diet is not dialed in either. Only reason your gaining fat is from your diet. Higher dosage of test is not going to make you put on more fat. High or low dosage you can maintain a lean look by controlling the food that goes into your body. I get you will retain more water with a higher dosage of test but no reason you can have striations and cuts on that kind of dosage either.

See, I never said that anything about testosterone getting you fat. I'll say this though; higher levels of testosterone lead to more aromatization. If not taken care of higher levels of estrogen will lead to fat gain. That's a given, but that's high estrogen.

But I'm not saying testosterone gets you fat, I never said that. I said I don't want mass anymore. Mass is fat/water/muscle. (High aromatizable compounds + caloric surplus). Mass is simply just size. Which I have a lot it. Sure you can get big quick and build real muscle tissue faster if running high testosterone dosages and eating an abundance of calories. But the sacrifice will be fat gain and water gain because that's just what happens, you need to eat more than what you are burning in order for the body to recover and get bigger. And when you happen to eat more calories you tend to add on a little bit of fat, depending on how much you are eating over.

But in this "bulking" phase you smooth out. Which I don't want anymore and that's what I'm trying to get at. You can start at your leanest and you'll still smooth out from the water retention and higher food intake. Unless you're taking growth hormone which helps keep fat off (which is why I said it doesn't count ;) )

If I drop my testosterone dose. I drop the unnecessary water retention. If I eat slightly just above maintenance maybe 100-200kcals over. Fat accumulation is minimal and muscle growth will be slower. But I will look better in the process.

Low dosing for long periods of time for better body composition while still looking good and healthy. Rather than the yo-yo effect of bulk & cut phases. That's all I'm trying to say.


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[Androman]

Exactly....Problem is. Most folks just want instant results...Look...I'm big now....Those are the same ones who don't last then turn soft n miserable. It's ll about slow steady gains that should keep for me.:D



I started in March...About 200 to 205... Now it's August..I've hit my goal of 220 lbs. Waist is still the same size...Actually a bit smaller..Slow lean gains..I'm sure I could of added that way faster...But it would of been a lot of water...Fuck that.

In 6 months you gained 15 lbs. that's what I'm talking about. If you tried to gained that amount in 3 months, it would've been accompanied by water and fat retention. This is the approach I'm going to start taking. Do everything in moderation, never in excess. I've always had that more is better mentality. Not necessarily with steroids but with everything; more food, more weights, more caffeine, etc. the body can only take so much. Without a doubt you will add the size quickly but the sacrifice is spilling over and softening up.

I'm no competitive bodybuilder, if I was I wouldn't mind these phases. But I'm now trying to good look all year round goddamnit lol.

[lipripper]

Yep, slow steady approach IMO is best in the long run.

I'm all in for being healthy, looking fit and being able to continue my outdoor hobbies..I have no interest in being the biggest dude in the gym or a "body builder" type. At my age brother..I'm holding my own and staying in the fight if you will.:D:D:D:weights::weights:

[Androman]

Yep, slow steady approach IMO is best in the long run.



I'm all in for being healthy, looking fit and being able to continue my outdoor hobbies..I have no interest in being the biggest dude in the gym or a "body builder" type. At my age brother..I'm holding my own and staying in the fight if you will.:D:D:D:weights::weights:

Exactly. Lip I remember when I was your age that's all we did; stay fit and try to be as healthy as possible.


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[Bouncer]

Exactly. Lip I remember when I was your age that's all we did; stay fit and try to be as healthy as possible.


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Wtf? How old are you? You remember when you were lips age?

[boricuarage79]

Wtf? How old are you? You remember when you were lips age?

Hahahahat to funny

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[AvidFisherman]

But the sacrifice will be fat gain and water gain because that's just what happens, you need to eat more than what you are burning in order for the body to recover and get bigger. And when you happen to eat more calories you tend to add on a little bit of fat, depending on how much you are eating over.

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I am trying to wrap my mind around this right now. When people eat a calorie surplus as they are "bulking" why is a calorie surplus necessary? I had a bod pod measurement of my resting metabolic rate which is right below 3,000kcal/day. I estimate my maintenance calories are somewhere around 3,700kcal/day on a typical day. If I take in 1g/lbs of protein this is 300g of protein, if it take in .4g/lbs of fat this is 120g of fat. This leaves me with 1420 calories which is 355g of carbs I can take in to meet my maintenance calories. Why would I need to go above this maintenance macro breakdown to "bulk?" I would think 355g of carbs would be plenty to fully fuel my lifts and daily activities.

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[Bouncer]

I am trying to wrap my mind around this right now. When people eat a calorie surplus as they are "bulking" why is a calorie surplus necessary? I had a bod pod measurement of my resting metabolic rate which is right below 3,000kcal/day. I estimate my maintenance calories are somewhere around 3,700kcal/day on a typical day. If I take in 1g/lbs of protein this is 300g of protein, if it take in .4g/lbs of fat this is 120g of fat. This leaves me with 1420 calories which is 355g of carbs I can take in to meet my maintenance calories. Why would I need to go above this maintenance macro breakdown to "bulk?" I would think 355g of carbs would be plenty to fully fuel my lifts and daily activities.

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You don't understand why you need to increase calories if you want to gain weight? It looks like your saying that but I feel like you're too smart to be saying that. Lol

[AvidFisherman]

I do not understand the biology of why we need to. I have been reading studies on gaining muscle mass eating high protein diets accompanied with weight training, but on severe caloric restriction. If people can gain muscle mass doing that, why can't I efficiently bulk eating maintenance? There is only a certain amount of amino acids that can go into your muscles for muscle protein synthesis, there is only a certain amount of glycogen that can enter your muscles and liver and it is not healthy to have a blood glucose level that is constantly high. I am just wondering at what level of consumption do the nutrients you put in your body have diminished returns and is this actually over maintenance?

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[Bouncer]

I do not understand the biology of why we need to. I have been reading studies on gaining muscle mass eating high protein diets accompanied with weight training, but on severe caloric restriction. If people can gain muscle mass doing that, why can't I efficiently bulk eating maintenance? There is only a certain amount of amino acids that can go into your muscles for muscle protein synthesis, there is only a certain amount of glycogen that can enter your muscles and liver and it is not healthy to have a blood glucose level that is constantly high. I am just wondering at what level of consumption do the nutrients you put in your body have diminished returns and is this actually over maintenance?

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this is a classic case of over thinking instead of looking at the obvious.

nobody is gaining muscle on "severe calorie restrictions" for long. go on a a year long "severe calorie restriction" and tell me how much muscle you gained. I don't care what study you read, in the real world it's absolutely wrong.

if your a lean guy and you can't gain weight you need to eat to grow. if you have a ton of bodyfat things are a little different. your body has a lot of fat to use to preserve your muscle. so for example if you go on a severe calorie restriction you may actually hold onto more muscle initially compared to someone with little body fat.

[lipripper]

Wtf? How old are you? You remember when you were lips age?

I hear ya Bouncer....he must be an old crusty fucker and using someones picture for an avatar..he slipped up:agreed:

I think he likes Bori's selfies...ya know hes a younger Hispanic type..probably got the hots for him:D

[Androman]

I am trying to wrap my mind around this right now. When people eat a calorie surplus as they are "bulking" why is a calorie surplus necessary? I had a bod pod measurement of my resting metabolic rate which is right below 3,000kcal/day. I estimate my maintenance calories are somewhere around 3,700kcal/day on a typical day. If I take in 1g/lbs of protein this is 300g of protein, if it take in .4g/lbs of fat this is 120g of fat. This leaves me with 1420 calories which is 355g of carbs I can take in to meet my maintenance calories. Why would I need to go above this maintenance macro breakdown to "bulk?" I would think 355g of carbs would be plenty to fully fuel my lifts and daily activities.

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Because I guess that's how the cookie crumbles... I too thought why can't I gain muscle by eating maintenance calories but high protein to help recover and grow muscle. And had a theory that over time you can build slow lean muscle by doing that. But if that were possible I'm sure a lot of people would be doing that already especially those who like staying lean and doing "Lean bulks". Instead of doing this they do calorie cycling. Where on rest days they don't eat as much as they would on training days but at the end of the week they're still hitting their caloric balance for growth. They're just utilizing they're Calories/cArbs more efficiently for and around workouts.


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[Androman]

Wtf? How old are you? You remember when you were lips age?

I hear ya Bouncer....he must be an old crusty fucker and using someones picture for an avatar..he slipped up:agreed:



I think he likes Bori's selfies...ya know hes a younger Hispanic type..probably got the hots for him:D

https://media.giphy.com/media/GbPru204dTDfG/200w.gif


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