The problems with typical bodybuilding splits

[coffee-guy]

Nekrawulf - I do want to ask this though - you've said that Control is taking a step in the right direction and that your splits/workouts kick homeostatis' butt - however you also said you're not going for the "Bodybuilding" type physique either BUT let's say that you were or you were working with someone who had that goal - what would you recommend to THEM???

[Nekrawulf]

My question is , in no way meant to be questionable, how did you two educate yourself on this? It's great to hear these perspectives, but I also would like to know how you came upon these thoughts. I have done a lot of compound movements in the recent time, but it's not for mass building. I have had a feeling of being more symmetrical in the sense that my body works together in it's goals instead of having "dead spots" or lagging parts. Does that make sense?

I read all types of literature and journals on exercise science, physiology, kinesiology, and diet.

The more I read. The more I am overtly convinced that Genetics and endocrinic manipulation play a much larger role than the scientific community give it credit for. It all started with my deep research into anabolics and the hows and whys they worked.

[Bouncer]

The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.

great post, these are the kind of posts i would like to see more. no more of your 3 word posts. :P

Question though, you said that the conventional type of workout was designed for the steroid using bodybuilder. so is the conventional way somehow better for someone using steroids?

[Nekrawulf]

Nekrawulf - I do want to ask this though - you've said that Control is taking a step in the right direction and that your splits/workouts kick homeostatis' butt - however you also said you're not going for the "Bodybuilding" type physique either BUT let's say that you were or you were working with someone who had that goal - what would you recommend to THEM???

Constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements.

Work muscles PRIMARILY as groups, not individuals. And you will have a much more superior response to the training. Of course For hypertrophys sake, you will need to isolate the muscles that you are not properly engaging in the compound training. Mark Rippetoe(author of "Starting Strength" has a similar training protocol to mine, excepts that he incorporated "bodybuilding" movements like those listed earlier in the thread to help isolate certain "lagging" parts


The irony of my situation is this... Since I came off AAS and focused on the performance module, my symmetry has naturally balanced itself out.

[Nekrawulf]

great post, these are the kind of posts i would like to see more. no more of your 3 word posts. :P

Question though, you said that the conventional type of workout was designed for the steroid using bodybuilder. so is the conventional way somehow better for someone using steroids?

yes. I wont deny that..... But only to a small degree.

Typical splits, when on cycle, are specialized in creating maximum hypertrophy. Thus giving the most bank for the buck. That is, until your body adapts to that regimen on training. AAS helps to prolong this adaptation, but it is inevitable, and the longer you have been training, the faster the adaptation.

This is why vets get smaller gains than newbs.

With a less specialized split as Control suggests, you have more leeway for variation in the workout, and a higher resistance to adaptation.

We all say it... all the time... you HAVE to mix it up...

But in reality we don't, we only shuffle around the same old splits.

[Nekrawulf]

g. no more of your 3 word posts. :P

what you mean?

[Bouncer]

i know this is going to be a pain in the ass but can you put together a program for me of how you would lay out the training. i am kind of having a hard time understanding which groups to work on different days.

this is my current program.

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

how should i change this? i know control explained it a bit but for some reason i seem to be having a hard time figuring out how to transform my program above into the one you guys are describing.

thanks

[Bouncer]

what you mean?

many of your posts lately have been very short little effort posts. kind of like your first post in this thread, "dont even get me started" or whatever you said. well i am sure glad we got you started because you have a lot of great knowledge to share.

[Nekrawulf]

i know this is going to be a pain in the ass but can you put together a program for me of how you would lay out the training. i am kind of having a hard time understanding which groups to work on different days.

this is my current program.

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

how should i change this? i know control explained it a bit but for some reason i seem to be having a hard time figuring out how to transform my program above into the one you guys are describing.

thanks

First we need to lay out your goals, What would you like to accomplish with this split.

Try to be very precise.

[Bouncer]

First we need to lay out your goals, What would you like to accomplish with this split.

Try to be very precise.

my goal is always the same. mass. i am currently on low dose test and tren cycle and want to maximize it.

[Nekrawulf]

my goal is always the same. mass.

Ok.

What are some of your favorite exercises that you use to achieve this goal?

[Bouncer]

Ok.

What are some of your favorite exercises that you use to achieve this goal?

i use pretty basic movements for the most part and usually only do 2-3 sets per muscle group. for example, today i did chest. i did 3 sets of DB incline presses for 10 reps each. then i did 3 sets of wide press hammer strength for 10 reps each. finished off with standing cable flys at 3 sets for 15 reps each. i always train as heavy as i can go without loosing form or control.

when i train arms i do 2 sets for triceps and 3 sets for biceps. for triceps i do 3 sets of skull crushers and 3 sets of seated behind the head DB tricep presses. for biceps i will do 3 sets of straight bar curls, 3 sets of DB hammer curls, and 3 sets of machine curls to finish off.

of course i change exercises up each week but i think you get the idea.

[Scrumhalf]

This has got to be one of the best threads on SM in quite a while. Lots of knowledge being shared - keep it going guys!

[Bouncer]

This has got to be one of the best threads on SM in quite a while. Lots of knowledge being shared - keep it going guys!

agreed, i think you will also agree that the board as a whole has had a better attitude the last few months.

[Shibby]

agreed, i think you will also agree that the board as a whole has had a better attitude the last few months.

The last eight days for sure :D

In all seriousness, have you notice that is has simply been a lot more conversation and un-heated debate than flaming over stupid shit...