The Debate Last Night!

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by redsquirrel
However, I want a President who will handle a crisis in a calculated, prepared, and HONEST manner...

this here will never happen again. those three terms are now the antithesis of any politicial whether democrat, republican or independent. The only person I would vote for from the current selection if he ever ran would be jesse ventura. can anyone else name a politician who refused to run because they actually accomplished what they set out to do and saw no reason to continue. I didn't agree with some of this ideas, but what a great man he was.

[Racer814]

Bush never has been a polished speaker and that showed last night but listen...it's a lot easier to point out someone else's mistakes when you weren't having to make those decisions yourself......kerry himself said it was a mistake to go into Iraq and later said he supported it WTF?...he just says whatever he thinks will get him elected...he says he has a plan for everything...lets hear it.......I'll vote Bush

[Bouncer]

Watched it from start to finish. Kerry destroyed Bush.

I love the part when kerry said, "attacking iraq for 9/11 is like attacking Mexico for Pearl Harbor". lol

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by Racer814
he says he has a plan for everything...lets hear it.......I'll vote Bush

well i guess you didnt watch last night. Kerry laid out a very clear plan. Bush's plan is to continue with what we are doing now. in other words, this is his plan. that is unacceptable to me. Im a republican but we are going no where fast with bush in office.

[bonebreaker]

This is not my quote and I didn't make it up, but to me it makes sense since it happened to me. "When your young and NOT a Democrat, you have no heart, when you get older and aren't a Republican, you have NO brain." Yeah, I'm a Bush supporter and will vote for him, but Kerry DID take the prize last night I hate to confess. Either way, they're both useless. Neither one of them can correct the problems the world has. Too many countries with their own agendas, many of which are hidden. BB

[Cory]

Bush is a total idiot. Kerry came across as being very articulate and professional. I don't understand how some of you can sit there and support someone because you are registered republican and then say that the other one was the better candidate in the debate. Use your own brain and make up your own mind who you think will be the best man to lead this country. Please don't make the mistake that so many people make and vote by party lines just because your family or friends are voting for a certain candidate.

[bigchub22]

Kerry is a moron and always will be ....last time i checked public speaking doesnt make you a good president the job you do and the actions you take however do and as far as im concerned he is doing a fine job and kerry can suck my dick i am in the military and so therefore i have more contact with military members then he probably does and i can tell you we cant stand him and i can also tell you that those of us who have been over there that i know at least are not upset with bush and his plan. Also you say kerry laid out a plan BS all he said was i have a plan i have a plan i have a plan well what the fuck is it. Last he scares me that he thinks bilateral talks and agreements with korea is the way to go and leaving china out of this no fucking way kerry. How can i sit here and vote for a republican like him you ask very very easy he is a stern strong president with a plan and STICKS to it not change is mind and position every 2 secs like kerry in the beginning of the debate kerry said iran was not a threat later he said iran was a threat hmmmm having trouble making up your mind go figure get a clue kerry is a moron and better say your hailmarys if he gets elected. By the way the small percentage of military that says bush's plan is scary and i want kerry are the ones who joined for a free college education guess what you get that by serving and doing a noble duty not by sitting on your ass for 4 years we go to war we fight for a cause we fight for generations to come so they can have a better life im sticking with the man that has a plan i have already seen and one who i already know what he is gonna do not one that cant even decide what to eat for breakfast fuck kerry......no disrespect to those with other opinions but those are my opinions and i could ramble on and one with facts about the rat kerry is but that would take hours that i dont have right now GOODNIGHT

[Gort]

Originally posted by Racer814
......kerry himself said it was a mistake to go into Iraq and later said he supported it WTF?...he just says whatever he thinks will get him elected...

Read up on both candidates.


Both candidates use a lot of leeway when quoting numbers and such. My problem is G.W.B. says patently false statements and then resorts to partial and out of context quotes by Kerry. Although Kerry has made some badly worded responses in the past, his stance on Iraq has been very consistent for years.

For the most part Kerry uses his views of fiscal conservatism and multinational cooperation to attack G.W.B. Bravo! If Kerry used sound bites of G.W.B. in attack ads guess who would look like a moron? But that would just not be nice, would it?

Read more at that site. They pounce on both candidates which is a refreshing break.

Small business tax?
Zell Miller?
Kerry votes for taxes?
Viet Nam
Kerry's poor attendance
Health care problems
50 cent gas tax

[wyst]

Originally posted by Primal Instinct
Kerry clearly defeated Bush in last night's debate. Kerry did exaggerate the 200 billion figure when in fact, the actual number is closer to 145 billion. On the flipside, Bush exaggerated when he claimed (which has been publically refuted by members of his own administration) that 100,000 Iraqi security personnel have been trained and are in action in Iraq. The actual number of these people is closer to 45,000 but only about 8-10,000 have had any training and less than 4,000 have even completed the 8-week course training.

Yeah, and in several key times where we've actually had to rely on them, they've deserted, run away, or refused to fight. I'm not knocking them, because I don't know anything about what they were asked to do, or what they're facing, or what kinds of equipment they have, but to say that there is a an Iraqi police or coherent Iraqi fighting force is simply ludicrous.

About as ludicrous as Bush's insistence that we have a multinational coalition of the willing. Whatever you think of the war and Bush's position, that sort of barely even half-truth just doesn't make him look very impressive. I mean, when it's a big loss that Costa Rica pulls out, your "multinational coalition" is pretty freaking lame. No offense to Costa Rica, but if they're one of your heavyweights, you've got problems.

xoxo

Wyst

[Primal Instinct]

I have a very close friend who's brother just returned home from service in Afghanistan and Iraq. For our purposes here, we'll call him "Steve." He is a grade A, first-class guy and real straight shooter. He is family oriented and a responsible person in the real world back here in the US. We don't know if he's going to get backdoor drafted yet or not but he was told not to get too comfortable back home. Anyway, he worked as a "forward observer" in Afghanistan when the fighting was hot and heavy, just prior to the official Iraq invasion. He was involved directly along with other members of his group in tracking and calling in airstrike coordinates on Taliban and Al Qaeda personnel. he also confirmed identities for sniper targets. Several times when certain high value targets presented opportunities for "neutralization" they called in the info that these people were directly in the crosshairs and awaited the go signal. In almost every case, they were told to stand down.


I cannot convey the frustration that he said that they all felt at such tactics. These were supposed to be the people that they were hunting. After exhaustive efforts, they were eventually found and when it was time to carry out their directive, the brass delayed answering for some time and then pulled the plug on their operation, only to let these people escape. Again, this happened on several occasions. Finally, at one point, they were ordered out of Afghanistan and were sent to duty in Iraq. He said that the difference between the two objectives were like day and night. Not only were they demoralized from the events in Afghanistan, they were further demoralized by the lack of clear direction and equipment necessary to complete their objectives in Iraq. This man is a true patriot and he firmly believes that Bush is definitely not the answer to the situation he (Bush) created in Iraq nor will they prevail in Afghanistan until they carry out what they claim to want to do there.


My opinion, if anyone cares? The Bush Administration needs a bad guy (boogeyman) to have on the loose out there so that fear can drive a predetermined foreign policy. They can't destroy Al Qaeda because they need Al Qaeda as a clear and present danger to US national security. If they were wiped out, we would need a new bad guy to keep us afraid. Out of ignorance, many people in this nation would gladly trade some of their personal freedoms for the mere specter of security. This security cannot be provided because it is a sham. Although Saddam was a sadistic bastard (his sons too), he was not the immediate threat to us as we had 2/3rds of his country under US military surveillance (no fly zone) and he couldn't possibly make a threatening move without our knowing it.


No, this current administration has no intention of providing any real measure of security for its citizens because it starts a war in Iraq, spending 200 billion dollars on it so far and on average now at 4 billion dollars per month (paid for by borrowing from social security and medicare funds as well as Chinese and Saudi banks) when that money could have fully funded our needs for port security, border control (especially along the Mexican border), and nuclear and chemical plant protections. (Last fall, I have personally driven across the border from Vermont into Canada by accident and didn't realize it until I saw roadsigns in English and French. I drove back the same route and never went through a checkpoint or border crossing!! WTF??!!) This is where the real threats reside- in the US right now, not fucking Iraq. Meanwhile, we lose our friends, neighbors, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, co-workers, etc., on bullshit so that huge multi-national corporations make cash hand over fist. It is blood money, don't kid yourselves.



Yes, good things have been and are being done for the Iraqi populace but it is clear (at least to Steve too) that they were undermanned from the start and summarily disbanding the standing Iraqi army was clearly a mistake, as most of them could have been used to help provide security for the US and British forces there. The other major detrimental factor to achieving steady progress in Iraq is the lack of secure borders from Syria and Iran. Without stemming the tide of incoming Jihadists, there can be no secure Iraq. There are simply not enough forces available to secure the borders at this point in time. Meanwhile, our brave men and women are repeatedly being targeted by motar and small arms fire on a daily basis.


Without security from terrorists who now reside in Iraq after the US deposed the centralized government of Saddam, public support for the US and Britain/Australia will continue to wane. A vast majority of the Iraqi people do not have jobs there, let alone the basic utilities on a weekly basis and this drives anti-western sentiment among these people. They become susceptible to talk from radicals like Al Sadyr and his kind because they are upset and want to rid themselves of this new misery.


Last thought; the Bush plan for January elections is a pipe dream. Things will not calm down enough in just three months for a safe trip for any Iraqi to the voting booth. Even if there IS an election held in January, there will be a mass bombing attack of several polling places and it will all fall to shambles. Shit, we can't even hold an honest election in Florida, so how can we expect one in Iraq? It's a mess there and it's getting worse. Our soldiers and our citizens here at home deserve better leadership.

[Cory]

Originally posted by bigchub22
Kerry is a moron and always will be ....last time i checked public speaking doesnt make you a good president the job you do and the actions you take however do and as far as im concerned he is doing a fine job and kerry can suck my dick i am in the military and so therefore i have more contact with military members then he probably does and i can tell you we cant stand him and i can also tell you that those of us who have been over there that i know at least are not upset with bush and his plan. Also you say kerry laid out a plan BS all he said was i have a plan i have a plan i have a plan well what the fuck is it. Last he scares me that he thinks bilateral talks and agreements with korea is the way to go and leaving china out of this no fucking way kerry. How can i sit here and vote for a republican like him you ask very very easy he is a stern strong president with a plan and STICKS to it not change is mind and position every 2 secs like kerry in the beginning of the debate kerry said iran was not a threat later he said iran was a threat hmmmm having trouble making up your mind go figure get a clue kerry is a moron and better say your hailmarys if he gets elected. By the way the small percentage of military that says bush's plan is scary and i want kerry are the ones who joined for a free college education guess what you get that by serving and doing a noble duty not by sitting on your ass for 4 years we go to war we fight for a cause we fight for generations to come so they can have a better life im sticking with the man that has a plan i have already seen and one who i already know what he is gonna do not one that cant even decide what to eat for breakfast fuck kerry......no disrespect to those with other opinions but those are my opinions and i could ramble on and one with facts about the rat kerry is but that would take hours that i dont have right now GOODNIGHT

Your grammar is about as good as Bush's. Is this Njjuicer? lol :rofl:

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by Cory
I don't understand how some of you can sit there and support someone because you are registered republican and then say that the other one was the better candidate in the debate.

agreed. I really dont like either of my choices for president but looking at our current state with many issues I believe anyone is good as long as bush is out. his actions alone have made other countries around the world have much more distrust and hate for us than ever before.

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by bigchub22
Kerry is a moron and always will be ....last time i checked public speaking doesnt make you a good president the job you do and the actions you take however do and as far as im concerned he is doing a fine job and kerry can suck my dick i am in the military and so therefore i have more contact with military members then he probably does and i can tell you we cant stand him and i can also tell you that those of us who have been over there that i know at least are not upset with bush and his plan. Also you say kerry laid out a plan BS all he said was i have a plan i have a plan i have a plan well what the fuck is it. Last he scares me that he thinks bilateral talks and agreements with korea is the way to go and leaving china out of this no fucking way kerry. How can i sit here and vote for a republican like him you ask very very easy he is a stern strong president with a plan and STICKS to it not change is mind and position every 2 secs like kerry in the beginning of the debate kerry said iran was not a threat later he said iran was a threat hmmmm having trouble making up your mind go figure get a clue kerry is a moron and better say your hailmarys if he gets elected. By the way the small percentage of military that says bush's plan is scary and i want kerry are the ones who joined for a free college education guess what you get that by serving and doing a noble duty not by sitting on your ass for 4 years we go to war we fight for a cause we fight for generations to come so they can have a better life im sticking with the man that has a plan i have already seen and one who i already know what he is gonna do not one that cant even decide what to eat for breakfast fuck kerry......no disrespect to those with other opinions but those are my opinions and i could ramble on and one with facts about the rat kerry is but that would take hours that i dont have right now GOODNIGHT

kerry can suck your dick? your speaking for the whole military when you say that they all like bush? you have more contact then kerry?

lol, take your bullshit somewhere else you jackass.

[bigchub22]

DID I SAY I HAD MORE CONTACT WHAT I MENT IS I WORK EVERYDAY WITH YOUR EVERYDAY MILITARY MEMBERS SURE HE HAS THE CAPABILITY TO CONTACT MORE THAN ME. I'M JUST SAYING I SPEAK FOR HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE THAT I DIRECTLY WORK WITH. THATS EXACTLY WHY I LEFT THIS BOARD AND WENT TO A MUCH BETTER BOARD THIS BOARD IS FULL OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU BOUNCER NO RESPECT FOR OTHER PEOPLES OPINIONS SORRY DIDNT KNOW THIS WAS A GRAMMAR BOARD TOO. DID YOU READ THE BOTTOM WHERE I SAID NO DISRESPECT TO OTHERS OPINIONS WELL NOW YOU CAN GO FUCK YOURSELF AND YOUR OFF THE WALL OPINIONS HAVE A NICE LIFE PAL

[kohe0011]

In my opinion Kerry offered no new plans for our future except that he is a different person than Bush and our allies will be more agreable. You cannot name any specifics about how he would do things differently because he didn't name them. Just repeated the phrase line "I have a four point plan." Oh... he's going to get the help of France, Germany, and Russia because without the bribed and coherced, we can't hava a coalition. That's right. The only reason they did not support the war was because they were padding their pockets with money from the oil for food program. Why is it only considered a multi-national coaliton if we included them? What because of the size of their population? So the smaller 30 or something countries don't count? That would be like saying what the crazy people want in California should apply to the midwest and east coast becuase they're larger than most states. I would never put the European's interests above our own. Global test my ass. These counties have already stated that they are not going to add troops to the cause even if Kerry were to win the election. Well that doesn't leave Kerry with many choices than does it?