answersingenesis.org

[Shibby]

I will go one further, and I am willing to discuss, that most non-believers(myself included) don't just think religion is crazy, but we find it very dangerous. More dangerous than most any other influence on earth.

[Shibby]

I would also like to show you appreciation for the great discussion. There is a guy at work (very christian) that I talk to all the time about this. He is great at having a discussion and leaving at trying to better understand each other no matter how much we may not agree.

[3v1lj03]

I don't want this to sound like an attack because this thread has been going very well. But my question is, do you really think you would be a christian if born in a Muslim nation? Reformation itself is the definition of change. You keep trying to disconnect with the Roman Catholic Church, but I am talking about all religions and how they can so easily change. I have no intention of drawing you anywhere. I like this discussion of simple difference in point of of view. To tell me saying the Vatican is corrupt and crazy; is like preaching to the choir about religion as a whole.

First don't worry I don't feel attacked and I am not easily offended. I do believe no matter where I was born I would be a believer in Jesus Christ. I can explain it if you want to get into to whole theological explanation. But if you don't I can keep it short by saying I am one of the elect. You may even be elect and not know it yet. There are quite a few christian Jews ,Iraqis, Palestinians and a huge christian church in China, and the Africans are sending christian missionarys to the USA. I can try to generalize about religions but, I will be a poor representative of them all. I agree that most religions do change there scared writings and even doctrine, which to me makes them a false religions. I am glad that we can agree on the Vatican that made LOL when I read I am preaching to the (atheist) choir :rofl:

[Shibby]

Would this be considered the most productive religion thread ever? :)

[3v1lj03]

I will go one further, and I am willing to discuss, that most non-believers(myself included) don't just think religion is crazy, but we find it very dangerous. More dangerous than most any other influence on earth.

It is absolutely true that religion will make men do things they would not otherwise do. Look what religion and even a specific sect of a religion did on 9/11. But, there are also good things that are done in the name of religion. Read the Mayflower Compact and see why the pilgrims came to the new world. The founding of the United States and the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Right arose from the founders religious beliefs .
I must stress that contrary to popular political correctness that in my world view all religions are not the same. All the religions of the world can be broken down into two categorys. 1) By far the most dangerous and the most prevalent is the idea that Man must do something to redeem himself in the eyes of God or the universe I.E. Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, and Karma itself. The other, one religion believes that Man is incapable of redeeming himself and no matter what he does there is nothing he can do to impress Almighty God. That the only way man can be redeemed is by the work of and sacrifice of a Savior. This is what I refer to as true religion and is the one that none need fear. This religion is not even based on religion and ritual but, on true libertarian freedom and a relationship with the Savior.

Look I do enjoy this kind of discussion but, if you want to get into this stuff in depth you should really go to the theology online BB. This type of thread is common and well discussed. You will find everything from wickens and pagens to every branch of Christians, and atheists you name it you can find them there and most are willing to have intelligent conversations like we have had here. I would urge you to stay away from the open theists as they are senseless in there arguments and when you argue with an idiot it soon becomes hard to tell the difference.

[Bouncer]

But, there are also good things that are done in the name of religion.

i can agree with that. its not all bad.

[Shibby]

It is absolutely true that religion will make men do things they would not otherwise do. Look what religion and even a specific sect of a religion did on 9/11. But, there are also good things that are done in the name of religion. Read the Mayflower Compact and see why the pilgrims came to the new world. The founding of the United States and the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Right arose from the founders religious beliefs .
I must stress that contrary to popular political correctness that in my world view all religions are not the same. All the religions of the world can be broken down into two categorys. 1) By far the most dangerous and the most prevalent is the idea that Man must do something to redeem himself in the eyes of God or the universe I.E. Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, and Karma itself. The other, one religion believes that Man is incapable of redeeming himself and no matter what he does there is nothing he can do to impress Almighty God. That the only way man can be redeemed is by the work of and sacrifice of a Savior. This is what I refer to as true religion and is the one that none need fear. This religion is not even based on religion and ritual but, on true libertarian freedom and a relationship with the Savior.

Look I do enjoy this kind of discussion but, if you want to get into this stuff in depth you should really go to the theology online BB. This type of thread is common and well discussed. You will find everything from wickens and pagens to every branch of Christians, and atheists you name it you can find them there and most are willing to have intelligent conversations like we have had here. I would urge you to stay away from the open theists as they are senseless in there arguments and when you argue with an idiot it soon becomes hard to tell the difference.

"Good people will do good things, bad people will do bad things. It takes religion to get a good person to do bad things". People can say the good things are done in the name of religion, but at the same time that person is saying they wouldn't do good things if there wasn't religion...

[3v1lj03]

If there is not a higher authority or religion who has the right to say what is good or bad. Therefore what constitutes a "good" person or a "bad" person?

[Bouncer]

Therefore what constitutes a "good" person or a "bad" person?

society. there really are no good or bad. its dog eat dog.

[Shibby]

If there is not a higher authority or religion who has the right to say what is good or bad. Therefore what constitutes a "good" person or a "bad" person?

YouTube - Richard Dawkins On Morality

It's 5:23 long, but I think this explains it well.

[3v1lj03]

YouTube - Richard Dawkins On Morality

It's 5:23 long, but I think this explains it well.

Yea , I've heard that not very convincing

[gdbear65]

If there is not a higher authority or religion who has the right to say what is good or bad. Therefore what constitutes a "good" person or a "bad" person?

It's called morality and it is whatever is permissible in our society, so in effect it is very fluid, which is why, for example, pornography has become acceptable. Most mature adults don't object to it, provided people are not being exploited to make it. It doesn't mean they condone it, but they will tolerate it, whereas in the 1950's it was taboo. Today it's shown on TV. Besides nothing is inherently good or bad, that is a judgement made by us.

[Shibby]

Yea , I've heard that not very convincing

the altruistic gene isn't very convincing? This is a long article but about the middle of the third page it discussing the research being done

Nature and the Altruism Gene - National - smh.com.au

[3v1lj03]

It's called morality and it is whatever is permissible in our society, so in effect it is very fluid, which is why, for example, pornography has become acceptable. Most mature adults don't object to it, provided people are not being exploited to make it. It doesn't mean they condone it, but they will tolerate it, whereas in the 1950's it was taboo. Today it's shown on TV. Besides nothing is inherently good or bad, that is a judgement made by us.

my point exactly

[coffee-guy]

It's called morality and it is whatever is permissible in our society, so in effect it is very fluid, which is why, for example, pornography has become acceptable. Most mature adults don't object to it, provided people are not being exploited to make it. It doesn't mean they condone it, but they will tolerate it, whereas in the 1950's it was taboo. Today it's shown on TV. Besides nothing is inherently good or bad, that is a judgement made by us.

Hobbes would be proud...