San Bernadine Shooting

[Turbo3000]

Most of the guys who commit mass shootings are either shot by the cops or they shoot themselves. I doubt that the death penalty deterrent will have much of an effect on someone with mental health issues. Roseburg, Oregon, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech... all committed by guys with mental problems and all killed themselves.

All attacked SOFT targets. All got scared when the guys with guns showed up.

[Scrumhalf]

Most of the guys who commit mass shootings are either shot by the cops or they shoot themselves. I doubt that the death penalty deterrent will have much of an effect on someone with mental health issues. Roseburg, Oregon, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech... all committed by guys with mental problems and all killed themselves.

[lipripper]

I have a great start for a solution...but it'll never be allowed...DEATH penalty to anyone who commits a violent crime with any kind of weapon..period...no if's ands or but's. Kill the fuckers...wanna bet when they find out there is no more soft system crime rates like shootings and murders will drop? but who has the balls to pass that in the law books....????? no one..why? because they aren't serious enough about the problem to do it.. poor little criminals will have their rights stepped on..

[chuckz28]

I'd make the statement that no matter how much we do for gun control it will never be enough. First we make one thing illegal and lets say it does drop a small amount of shootings. You can't honestly say "well that's good enough we did our part". You will continue to make the same argument that more gun control will save more lives and ask us to give up more. This keeps going until guns or bullets are banned and yet it still won't stop this from happening because guns aren't the problem they are the tool. Crazies will still kill people by any means necessary.

Where there is a will there is a way. The solution is in the mental health of the people as well as the inability to call a spade a spade due to fear of hurting a group of peoples feelings.

[StanG]

agree with your points but it must be said that some of the recent mass shootings actually have been done with guns that were legally obtained and registered.

All in the spirit of a good debate Im glad you brought that up.
While this in fact may very well be true the point is the crimes would be committed regardless of that fact. If the people are determined to commit such acts the weapons could and would be illegally obtained to do so or other means of violence (IED's) could be used in lieu of firearms.
The point is in my mind the issue is the people, not the hardware used to commit the atrocity. If one is willing to break the law to such a degree by committing mass murder they surely have no issue purchasing a firearm illegally to do so.
I cant help but think in these situations lets say an individual with a concealed carry permit had their snub-nose 357 mag when they see johnny mass murderer whip out his AK. Once he raises the ak and begins firing Mr Legally Armed American Citizen pumps a 357 mag into his back. Instead of 14 dead we are now looking at 2 dead. I would like to think were I present in such a scenario and had the opportunity I would have the presence of mind as well as the courage required to take out my .380 and shoot the guy dead.
Lets play so called devils advocate for just a moment and consider this: Perhaps the greatest deterrent to all of these mass shootings is in fact MORE legally armed US citizens, lets ponder that for a moment. Another point to possibly consider.

[Bouncer]

Scrum, your solution isn't one. See Prohibition and "The war on drugs" as the perfect case study. Your solution will do nothing to prevent bad people from getting guns in the same way drug laws do nothing to prevent druggies like me from getting drugs.

[Scrumhalf]

I think people like scrum that talk about restrictions don't actually understand that side of things. The power and scope of the black market. Here I am a white kid in jersey that knows nothing about guns and yet I could have bought one out of a car had I been interested.

Bro, don't talk to me like I am a 16 yo gen X kid in high school. Unlike most of you (Beast not included), I have extensive experience living and working in countries other than the US, including 3rd world countries. You think I don't know how the black market operates? You are talking to someone who has lived for years in places where the only way to get things is on the black market, the only way to get things done is with bribes.

This conversation has run its course. This country has a real problem with ideology trumping compromise. Wake up, guys. America is not necessarily the best at everything, even if the flag wavers insist it is. There are things we can learn from others. And gun violence is something others have figured out how to minimize.

There are always going to be instances that cannot be stopped, no matter what laws you put in. But to claim that just because we cannot get 100% safety, we shouldn't do anything, is being intellectually dishonest.

As an engineer used to solving problems, it is infuriating to hear this conversation. I always tell the guys who work for me "Don't tell me what can't be done. I don't need a team of PhD engineers to tell me what I can't do. Tell me how we are going to solve the problem." And all I am hearing right now is how something cannot be done. No solutions. Because apparently, our country is so unique that nothing that works anywhere else will ever work here, not to solve 100% of gun violence but even 20% or 30% or 50%.

We are an embarrassment, guys. I don't know if you fully comprehend this. I've read the international papers and talked to many people in the developing world and the overwhelming sentiment is this - how come you guys who can invent the microprocessor and put a man on the moon, can't figure out how to take some simple steps to keep your people safe? And I have no answers for them.

I love my country, but I am resigned to keep having these incidents, orders of magnitude higher than any other country in the world, while we all retreat to our ideological corners and talk past each other.

[Bouncer]

I really do believe Gun Control would have zero impact- yes.
The criminals committing crimes involving guns are not doing so with legally registered and obtained firearms. They are doing so with stolen and /or illegally obtained firearms. No amount of gumn control will stop this.
As has been said strcter drug laws have done absolutely nothing to curb the availability of drugs, the same would hold true with firearms.
All gun control would do is limit the law abiding citizen from obtaining firearms. Great idea, so now the people that would not use a firearm to break the law cannot legally obtain one yet the criminals means for obtaining said weapon remains unimpeded. How on earth does this help accomplish anything at all? If anything it does make the Law Abiding citizen more vulnerable as his ability to protect himself is being restricted or reduced while nothing at all is being done to limit or reduce the criminals means to obtains firearms. If you want to focus on guns and use resources to somehow restrict them, focus on the restriction of ILLEGAL & ILLEGALLY OBTAINED firearms.

agree with your points but it must be said that some of the recent mass shootings actually have been done with guns that were legally obtained and registered.

[StanG]

I really do believe Gun Control would have zero impact- yes.
The criminals committing crimes involving guns are not doing so with legally registered and obtained firearms. They are doing so with stolen and /or illegally obtained firearms. No amount of gumn control will stop this.
As has been said strcter drug laws have done absolutely nothing to curb the availability of drugs, the same would hold true with firearms.
All gun control would do is limit the law abiding citizen from obtaining firearms. Great idea, so now the people that would not use a firearm to break the law cannot legally obtain one yet the criminals means for obtaining said weapon remains unimpeded. How on earth does this help accomplish anything at all? If anything it does make the Law Abiding citizen more vulnerable as his ability to protect himself is being restricted or reduced while nothing at all is being done to limit or reduce the criminals means to obtains firearms. If you want to focus on guns and use resources to somehow restrict them, focus on the restriction of ILLEGAL & ILLEGALLY OBTAINED firearms.

[lipripper]

I just want to make a point about how easy it is to get illegal weapons. When I lived in Jersey I knew a few people that lived in Brighton Beach NY. For those who don't know, Brighton has a huge Russian population. One day I was talking to one of them who I had become friends with at the gym. Long story short, he sold weapons as a side business and he showed me 3 ak-47's and 2 other guns that looked just like ak-47's only they were smaller. He had these weapons in the back of his SUV in the gym parking lot..

I think people like scrum that talk about restrictions don't actually understand that side of things. The power and scope of the black market. Here I am a white kid in jersey that knows nothing about guns and yet I could have bought one out of a car had I been interested.

yep..but they talk about making new gun laws...like its gonna stop criminals and sick fucks. It simply just don't work, look at france.. no need to look any further.. but they cant or wont admit it...just wanna take the big bad black machine gun/ or pistol away from mom and pops that do no wrong...

[Bouncer]

I just want to make a point about how easy it is to get illegal weapons. When I lived in Jersey I knew a few people that lived in Brighton Beach NY. For those who don't know, Brighton has a huge Russian population. One day I was talking to one of them who I had become friends with at the gym. Long story short, he sold weapons as a side business and he showed me 3 ak-47's and 2 other guns that looked just like ak-47's only they were smaller. He had these weapons in the back of his SUV in the gym parking lot..

I think people like scrum that talk about restrictions don't actually understand that side of things. The power and scope of the black market. Here I am a white kid in jersey that knows nothing about guns and yet I could have bought one out of a car had I been interested.

[lipripper]

Christ rippers talking about abortions now. Someone shot me with an illegal in California assault rifle. ;)

funny how this dumb bitch relates gun violence with abortion and wants the laws to mirror each other...how the fuck will this stop some gang banger from shooting another with an illeagle obtained gun for a fucking nickel bag:rofl::rofl::rofl: fucking simple minded liberal assholes..

[Bouncer]

Christ rippers talking about abortions now. Someone shot me with an illegal in California assault rifle. ;)

[lipripper]

Another PRIME example of a "feel good law" trying to be passed for gun control... PLEASE explaine how this bullcrap will stop any violence from a LAW abiding citizen???? oh but of course it will be a huge fucking hassle to them to do what is perfectly leagle.. How will any of this..stop a sick fuck please explane Im really not understanding? I must be too goddamn simple minded..



A proposed bill in Missouri would make buying a gun as difficult as getting an abortion

In the US state of Missouri it’s easy to buy a gun and hard to get an abortion. A new state bill filed on Dec. 1 proposes making the two equally difficult, according to the Missouri Times. (The bill should be available here but has been difficult to access online on Dec. 3). Among its requirements that mirror the state’s restrictions on obtaining an abortion:
Buyers must review alternatives to purchasing a firearm (including peaceful and nonviolent conflict resolution) and medical risks associated with firearms (including photographs of fatal firearm injuries) with the dealer, orally and in writing.
At least 72 hours before attempting to buy a gun, prospective gun owners must meet with a licensed physician to discuss the risks of gun ownership, and obtain a written notice from the doctor.
The gun must be purchased from a licensed gun dealer located at least 120 miles (193 kilometers) from the purchaser’s legal residence. (That’s the average distance women must travel in Missouri to obtain an abortion).
Buyers must watch a half-hour video about fatal firearm injuries.
Buyers must meet with two local faith leaders who have officiated (within the past year) a funeral for a young (under 18) gun violence victim, and with two families who have been victims of gun violence.
On a weekend between 10 pm and 6 am, when gun violence victims are present, buyers must tour an emergency trauma center at the nearest qualified urban hospital, and get written verification from a doctor.

Lawmaker Stacey Newman, a Democrat, proposed the bill to more or less make a point. Having served in state legislature since 2009—with a focus on preventing gun violence and defending women’s reproductive rights—she knows the bill is unlikely to get through the state’s Republican-controlled legislature. But, she said, “If we truly insist that Missouri cares about ‘all life,’ then we must take immediate steps to address our major cities’ rising rates of gun violence.”

Missouri ranks among the top five US states in rates of gun deaths, and ranks first in the US in toddlers shooting themselves or others.

[chuckz28]

I don't get this. Every person I personally know in America has shown the deepest sympathy and support when France was attacked and in return when the same happens on our soil the world puts blame is on us and our gun laws. Nobody blamed France and their lack of gun control.

Sorry but when we are attacked whether by crazies, radicals, terrorists or whatever, the last thing I want to do is put my safety in the government's hand. It only encourages me to brush up on my firearm skills and have even more situational awareness and preparedness.