Trump threatens North Korea with 'fire and fury'

[Bouncer]

He is not going to use nuclear weapons.

There's one thing that people need to realize about dictators. They are cowards who fear one thing above all else - losing power.

Kim knows that if he did a pre-emptive strike, he will get obliterated because the whole world will come to get him, no matter what.

This is pure deterrence. He is telling the world and the US in particular - don't mess with me. Having a nuke is the most effective deterrent against a conventional strike.

The ONLY rational choice the US and the rest of the world has at this point is to wait him out and hope that in the next 30, 40, 50 years, just like with the Soviets, or China, or Vietnam, or any other totalitarian regime, there will be regime change from the inside and gradually, things will get better.

In the meantime, what we should be doing is the LOWER the rhetoric, not exacerbate the situation.

what happens if there is some unforeseen revolution in NK and he's about to be overthrown? What do you think a person like hitler would have done when the Russians were closing in and it was clearly all over? He will say fuck the world and go out with a literal bang. This fucken nut cannot be allowed to have ICBM's capable of reaching the continental united states.

[Scrumhalf]

He's already got nukes. There's nothing the world can do about it. The US is in denial. The sooner we accept this reality, the better.

And the Hitler analogy is not relevant. We are in a nuclear age, and NOBODY has the stomach for the civilian casualities of total war in this day and age.

[Bouncer]

He's already got nukes. There's nothing the world can do about it. The US is in denial. The sooner we accept this reality, the better.

And the Hitler analogy is not relevant. We are in a nuclear age, and NOBODY has the stomach for the civilian casualities of total war in this day and age.

There is absolutely something the world can do about it.

Yes people will die. But 100 times more will die if this progress continues.

If a criminal has a hand gun you don't say "well fuck it let's leave him alone". You don't allow him to get himself an assult rifle, then a rocket launcher, then a tank etc... You stop that shit before it gets out of hand.

[Scrumhalf]

Maybe I am not being clear.

I'm not saying don't try to prevent him from developing bigger and bigger weapons. But you do that by convincing him that nobody is going to attack him. By constantly surrounding him and threatening him, you are driving him more and more into a corner where he is convinced (with good reason) that nukes are the only deterrent he has.

And there is good reason for this. Our track record has been piss poor here. We told Gaddafi that we don't mean harm and he should lay down him weapons. And waht happened right after he did? We toppled him.

Kim has zero reason to stop developing nukes because he is convinced, with good reason, that nukes are the ONLY reason we are not attacking him.

[boricuarage79]

Sure, if we are willing to accept a million deaths on the Korean peninsula and surrounding areas.

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Sure... untill he uses that IMCB while you sleeping and then what?

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[Scrumhalf]

Sigh.

And what possible motivation does he have to use an ICBM?

[Bouncer]

Maybe I am not being clear.

I'm not saying don't try to prevent him from developing bigger and bigger weapons. But you do that by convincing him that nobody is going to attack him. By constantly surrounding him and threatening him, you are driving him more and more into a corner where he is convinced (with good reason) that nukes are the only deterrent he has.

And there is good reason for this. Our track record has been piss poor here. We told Gaddafi that we don't mean harm and he should lay down him weapons. And waht happened right after he did? We toppled him.

Kim has zero reason to stop developing nukes because he is convinced, with good reason, that nukes are the ONLY reason we are not attacking him.

Diplomacy has not worked with him. He won't reason with China and he damn sure won't reason with us.

US and South Korea want more sanctions. This won't work. It's like backing a dog into a corner, you know what happens next.

Kim cannot be allowed to develop ever more powerful weapons and he will not agree to stop via diplomatic channels.

[Bouncer]

Sigh.

And what possible motivation does he have to use an ICBM?

What possible motivation did he have to launch a missile directly over Japan?

That doesn't sound like a self defense move. That sounds like a provocative move to me.

You are trying to paint a picture of poor ole Kim just trying to hold onto power. Bullshit, this guy is firing missiles over countries which by the way could have very easily been seen as an act of war against Japan.

[Scrumhalf]

He is showing that he has the capability to hit Japan. It does not mean that he is going to.

He is not going to do a preemptive strike. That's suicide. He will get obliterated. He's just trying to make the point " don't attack me, because I don't think you are willing the pay the price for it."

And I'm not defending anybody. I'm just pointing out the guy's thought process which is so obvious, I am astonished any of the so called brains in this administration don't get it.

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[Scrumhalf]

Kim cannot be allowed to develop ever more powerful weapons and he will not agree to stop via diplomatic channels.

We don't have any military options to do what you are stating.

And the reason we don't see any success through diplomacy is that we keep insisting on him abandoning his nuclear weapons as a precondition for talks. The guy is crazy but not stupid. He knows that happened to Gaddafi. He knows that his nuclear weapons are the only thing holding back the US from a conventional strike that will wipe him out.

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[Bouncer]

He is showing that he has the capability to hit Japan. It does not mean that he is going to.

He is not going to do a preemptive strike. That's suicide. He will get obliterated. He's just trying to make the point " don't attack me, because I don't think you are willing the pay the price for it."

And I'm not defending anybody. I'm just pointing out the guy's thought process which is so obvious, I am astonished any of the so called brains in this administration don't get it.

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So if I fire a bullet over your head will your first thought be.. "oh it's obvious this guy won't hurt me, he's just showing me his strength".

LoL @ your view point. Absolutely ridiculous. If America fired a missile over another country you'd be on a fucken rant.

[Scrumhalf]

You're nuts. You can't attack NK by any means right now without risking massive casualties.

There. Is. No. Military. Solution.

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[Bouncer]

You're nuts. You can't attack NK by any means right now without risking massive casualties.

There. Is. No. Military. Solution.

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And the casualties if we wait a few more years will be many times greater.

If it was up to you no military action would ever take place at any point in history. You'd have let Hitler take over Europe. You'd have let Japan take over Asia. All because "if we intervene there will be more casualties".

I don't like death scrum, I'm not looking for war. But you are the type of person that will be caught with your pants down because you think you can understand the mindset of a person you think you know.

[Scrumhalf]

Bullshit.

If you think the situation with nuclear NK is anything like 1930s Germany, you are not being honest with yourself.

And let's see how serious we are with diplomacy.

Trump has not even nominated anyone to be considered by Congress for ambassador to South Korea.

The State Dept is in shambles, with a looking 20% headcount reduction because the administration thinks we have too many people. The undersecretaries, who typically do much of the heavy lifting aren't even nominated. We have a Secretary of State who is either unable or unwilling to do his job.

And we have a bunch of generals in all the civilian positions of power, guys with hammers to whom every problem looks like a nail.

And we conduct massive military exercises right on NK's doorstep.

And we have the gall to say in the UN that NK is itching for war?

Come on. Making war is what we do. It's one thing that we are supremely good at. We've been at war nonstop since the mid 20th century with someone or the other. And while we are not in an overt war, we are abetting, overthrowing, undermining or destabilizing anyone and everyone we don't like. Let me guess - they all hate us and our way of life. Right?

Let's be honest here about who the aggressor is in today's world.

[Bouncer]

Scrum here is the most important question I have for you.

What if you're wrong? What if you are misinterpreting this particular dictators intentions. What then?