Fuck you california..

[Scrumhalf]

He thought slavery was a noble cause that was worth fighting the tyrant United States over? Gotcha.

And your argument would have some merit if his goal was to stay in the US and somehow change the government. He literally wanted to leave. He was part of the confederate states of America. Not the United States of America. He committed armed insurrection. That's why he's a traitor, not some kind of reformer.

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[Scrumhalf]

Nice strawman about Trump. Nobody is raising an army to literally fight Trump. The place to defeat him is at the ballot box. And regardless, nobody is talking about breaking up the country, like the Confederates did. If someone did that, then sure, they'll be traitors too.

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[Bouncer]

He thought slavery was a noble cause that was worth fighting the tyrant United States over? Gotcha.

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time and perspective.

we call Alexander "the great". yet he killed hundreds of thousands and enslaved many more. we think of the pyramids as "wonders" yet they were built by slaves. nobody is talking about changing the name of Alexandria or dismantling the pyramids because they "glorify slavery".

concepts change over time. whats excepted today will be seen as insane in 100 years.

Alexander still did amazing things and the Pyramids are absolute wonders despite the ugly history. the same applies to Lee.

you see things how you want to see them scrum. you have an inability to view things without bias.

[Scrumhalf]

Man, this was literally 150 years ago. Not a thousand. Most other in the West (not colonies) wanted nothing to do with slavery. We knew better, yet we did it. There's no way to spin this positively. It was wrong, and we knew it was wrong, yet we did it. And let's not even bring up Jim Crow, separate but equal, etc. That's in the freaking 20th century. It's hard to believe that the civil rights era is not even 60 years ago. That's how fucked up we were and in a lot of ways, still are. The decimation of Native Americans and slavery are the two gigantic stains on our history that we should never forget.

[Bouncer]

At the time of the civil war concepts were completely different.

Had you been born in the south 150 years ago you would absolutely have a different mindset. It's very easy for you to sit here in 2018 and judge Lee.

Yet apparently you give Alexander and the Egyptians a pass because the gap in time was longer. Lol.

Say it with me now.... HYPOCRITE!

[Scrumhalf]

Emancipation as an idea had taken firm root in Western thought by the mid 1800s. Go read about Wiliam Wilberforce, the Second Great Awakening and the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833.

There was no justification for slavery in the mid 1800s. It was morally indefensible simply because the rational thought that came about with the Enlightenment and the Second Great Awakening made it absolutely unsupportable.

Come on man, surely you are joking. Are you seriously suggesting that people in the mid 19th century should be held to the same standard as someone over 2000 year ago? And if I criticize slavery in the Americas and not the ancient Romans, I am being inconsistent?

[lipripper]

love the excuses for all but America...LMFAO

[Bouncer]

Yes absolutely I'm suggesting that.

If you were born in the south 150 years ago to slave owning parents your concepts would have been vastly different.

You cannot compare concepts of those in Europe 150 years ago. Lee was a product of the south.

[Turbo3000]

Emancipation as an idea had taken firm root in Western thought by the mid 1800s. Go read about Wiliam Wilberforce, the Second Great Awakening and the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833.

There was no justification for slavery in the mid 1800s. It was morally indefensible simply because the rational thought that came about with the Enlightenment and the Second Great Awakening made it absolutely unsupportable.

Come on man, surely you are joking. Are you seriously suggesting that people in the mid 19th century should be held to the same standard as someone over 2000 year ago? And if I criticize slavery in the Americas and not the ancient Romans, I am being inconsistent?

Be sure to criticize all of the African Americans that SOLD their own people. Amazing how everyone acts like the bad whiteboard man went and just had a field day.

[lipripper]

Yes absolutely I'm suggesting that.

If you were born in the south 150 years ago to slave owning parents your concepts would have been vastly different.

You cannot compare concepts of those in Europe 150 years ago. Lee was a product of the south.

yea but they were wrong..so history should be erased...now the Egyptians myans.. and all before..we need to leave that history alone as its good to learn from...LMFAO

[Keiser]

This is stupid and silly to call the national anthem racist and why are we leaving this up to the students to decide? Where are the adults? I actually know San Ramon very well, it's mostly Indian American and H1B Indian families in the tech industry, but it's just one small high school in the SF Bay Area. It isn't representative of the entire great state of California.

Lip, did you hear the stories about Trump's wife Melania and her parents immigrating here via Chain Migration? And that her father was a former member of the communist party? Are you outraged?

[Scrumhalf]

love the excuses for all but America...LMFAO

Arguing against slavery and against leading armed insurrection against America is un-American? Weird.

[Keiser]

Also what's worse?

A bunch of dumb indian-American students in a high school that happens to be in California voting against singing the national anthem at pep rallies.... Or another white American terrorist in Florida shooting up a school and killing children this morning?

Our outrage appears to be focused on the wrong thing today.

[Bouncer]

Also what's worse?

A bunch of dumb indian-American students in a high school that happens to be in California voting against singing the national anthem at pep rallies.... Or another white American terrorist in Florida shooting up a school and killing children this morning?

Our outrage appears to be focused on the wrong thing today.

we were talking about 1 subject before the shooting even happened dipshit. the terrorist was hispanic by the way..

[lipripper]

Emancipation as an idea had taken firm root in Western thought by the mid 1800s. Go read about Wiliam Wilberforce, the Second Great Awakening and the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833.

There was no justification for slavery in the mid 1800s. It was morally indefensible simply because the rational thought that came about with the Enlightenment and the Second Great Awakening made it absolutely unsupportable.

Come on man, surely you are joking. Are you seriously suggesting that people in the mid 19th century should be held to the same standard as someone over 2000 year ago? And if I criticize slavery in the Americas and not the ancient Romans, I am being inconsistent?

Yes...you choose a narrative to fit your needs. You can't admit it was in that period of time it was okit simply was what it was...it's also the time period...change started..in this country.it had to starts at some point.. in...get this time.../ History. But you choise to ignore that to fit it as you see it is rediculcus.

You in any and every point always find a way blame Americans... So I guess there was never any slavery in your heritage...gee...again let's be real.

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